84KF added a topic in Avidfoxflyers General HangarAnother rebuttal.....Jay & Beverly to kitfox-list
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay & Beverly"
"It would be nice if current TO weight could be used. If this were the case I think there would be more normal category aircraft available to sport pilots. If the TO weight can be used, the authorities that have that information are treating it like a state secret. I think AOPA, EAA, and anyone with a normal category aircraft for sale that has a weight just above 1320 would have banner headlines with that information."
"It would be nice if current TO weight could be used"
Some one is not paying attention.....
"If this were the case I think there would be more normal category aircraft available to sport pilots"
No, because the empty weight of these aircraft would put them over the weight limit when all else is figured in.
Once again, from http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_rule.pdf page 44793:
"Some commenters stated that lacking a definition of maximum takeoff weight, aircraft with fairly high performance characteristics could meet the definition of light-sport aircraft by limiting the approved weight and payload of the airplane. The FAA considers this a valid concern and has provided some additional constraints on the weight as detailed below.
The maximum weight of a light-sport aircraft is the sum of:
(1) Aircraft empty weight;
(2) Weight of the passenger for each
(3) Baggage allowance for each
(4) Full fuel, including a minimum of
the half-hour fuel reserve required for
day visual flight rules in § 91.151(a)(1).
Take any certificated aircraft, and using the data in it's TCDS do the math, and see for yourself.
Now, you won't find "empty weight" in a TCDS, because it varies from aircraft to aircraft. Do some research, find the typical empty weight of any certificated aircraft NOT on the list, apply the "formula" and see that they are unable to meet the definition.
Faa link.... http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/light_sport/media/existing_models.pdf
EAA link... http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_aircraft.html
One will not find any certificated aircraft not on the list, that would be otherwise.
These boys (FAA) did their homework on this one...they have all bases covered.
"If the TO weight can be used, the authorities that have that information are treating it like a state secret"
The "information" has been available since July 24, 2007.
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84KF added a topic in Avidfoxflyers General HangarOpps...my apologies The site is stiil there...And in all fairness, here is the link... http://www.sportpilot.org/questions/afmfaqs.asp?topicid=12
It just didn't google for me as usual... my bad.
Anyway, here is the link to the post in question.... and the reply that mentions the "well, if you ever exceed...."
Also, Mr. Norris depends on twisting the facts, such as
..."This verbiage clearly says that an aircraft must meet all the criteria called out in the definition of an LSA at the time of its original certification AND CONTINUOUSLY thereafter....", which is intended to apply to TCDS aircraft only, as stated in the final rule... found under
Modifications of Aircraft To Meet the Light-Sport Aircraft Definition
As stated above in the
section titled ‘‘Modifications of Aircraft
To Meet the Light-Sport Aircraft
Definition,’’ a sport pilot may not fly an
aircraft with a standard airworthiness
certificate that has been modified to
meet the light-sport aircraft definition.
Federal Register / Vol. 69, No. 143 / Tuesday, July 27, 2004 / Rules and Regulations 44793
It doesnt say ANY aircraft, it states aircraft with a standard airworthiness
The problem is one must read the rule first or they wouldn't know this.....
I have nothing to hide.
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84KF added a topic in Avidfoxflyers General Hangartwo faced...or what??Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: Series 5 Light Sport
SOMEONE has finally gone the distance and found some
DEFINITIVE information. (I hope.) Jay, may we have a source for this
quote? I'd like to know who it came from so we can ascertain their credentials.
Now before anyone thinks I was rooting either way, I wasn't
and I'm not. Indeed I hoped that Steve was right and that he would
publish definitive proof sooner or later. All I wanted was data, not opinion.
San Diego, CA
What a crock.... What is more definitive then the FAA itself, and http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_rule.pdf
"Now before anyone thinks I was rooting either way...."
"All I wanted was data, not opinion."
Here's your friggin data Guy..... http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_rule.pdf
As I said before... "the Pope Himself......."
"Indeed I hoped that Steve was right...."
"may we have a source for this quote?"
Naturally, any quote found on the Internet will take precedent over the FAA....in Guys mind.
(find the reference to Joe Norris elsewhere on this site. ) Note: Joe Norris is NOT the EAA, just someone who wrote for them, and got it wrong. I don't fault the EAA in general, just the dribble Norris published at one time.
PS...It would be nice if it was pointed out to "list" readers that I am unable to reply or respond to Guys comments there due to ...whatever. Not a very fair way to spread information. Sort of childish....
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akflyer added a topic in Avidfoxflyers General Hangarok guests what do you want to see hereI know there are alot of lurkers and guests poking around here, and I am wondering what it will take to get you to post up.
Dont be afraid to say or do anyting that will get you banned here.. within and very few rules nothing is gonna get you banned, we may hack on you a little but not too bad.
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84KF added a topic in Avidfoxflyers General HangarGross weight on the AW cert....not there."Any builder can specify the maximum takeoff weight of his aircraft, and have the special airworthiness certificate list the maximum takeoff weight as 1320 pounds "
could you post a picture of your AW cert..., or any "application form", and show where it indicates or stipulates a weight of any type?
Here are mine.... (attached)
The thing is, it's irrelevant... since the LSA MTOW is an operating limitation, not a number, such as found on a TCDS, which is the only place you will find the weight limits on certificated aircraft. (it is not included on aw certs)
" We now know that the aircraft must be identified by means of a fireproof plate containing the information specified in 45.13, the pertinent part of which states:
45.13 Identification data.
(a) The identification required by § 45.11(a) and (B) shall include the following information:
(1) Builder's name.
(2) Model designation.
(3) Builder's serial number.
(4) Type certificate number, if any.
(5) Production certificate number, if any
You'll note that items number 4 and 5 would not apply to amateur-built aircraft, so items 1 through 3 are the only info required on an amateur-built aircraft data plate."
Any more flight time on the IV? Hope it's going well.
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akflyer added a topic in Hardcore Avidfoxflyerswhat to do if your IP has been banned from the listdo a quick google search for "proxy servers" if you IP just happens to be banned from the list you can still get in this way. I use this on a certain snowmobile site that has seen fit to ban me for calling a moderator out. now I have fun poking the shit outa them from proxy servers and making up duplicate accounts... I keep telling them it would be easier for all involved to just re-instate my original account as I have lots of time to do nothing but make their moderating lives miserable as long as I am "banned"
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