My model 691 is squared tail and the cooling is the one without front symetric holes, 2 vertical pieces, without the extra cool on left side.It has short gear legs, stringer sit grey/red, and interior carpets. magnifique !
Wow, I have not seen the digital instruments with the AVID factory logo. I like them! I think they would look better in my panel than your
I was under the impression that the crome pedals and sticks did not come out till the model IV. Do you have the rounded rudder or squared off? How about the cowling? A pic of the cowling and radiators that were supplied with the kit would help out.
Mine came in at 581# empty (was kinda funny because it weight 581, has a 582 in the nose and is serial number 584). It was weighed on non certified scales, and next time home I am going to put it in a buddies hangar and hang it on his digital certified scale and see what it really comes in at for weight. I went light on the paint on mine, but went with Meduim fabric because I like to drag mine through the brush and small trees.. I wanted the extra tear resistance According to the book, I only added a few pounds over all by going with the medium fabric. I am sure I can lighten it up more by getting rid of the heavy tires that I have also. I picked up a fiberglass panel for mine so I can get rid of the heavy aluminum panel that it came with. I also plan on gettting rid of some of the instruments in the panel and doing all I can to lighten it up, but I doubt I will ever get it as light as I would like it to be!
If you fly in cold weather, I would keep the electric start.
Sure you must be right, but it is hard to live with an unrealised idea hidden in your head i will wait and learn more about that.
Anyway, the major point is to not exceed empty weigh, and i'm little lost about what expecting. I see so many different weighs for planes coming from same kit round the net...
What can i espect with a model C standard, Vfr, hand radio, light paint?
What kind of improvements can i do to save weigh?
Can be a good deal to change my 582 electric starter + battery for a start rope?
Sorry for the full of questions before i start mounting plane, it is because i don't want to go in false direction
Most avids and kit foxes tend to be nose heavy. Without elevator trim, the quick fix is to run your flaperons REFLEXED (trailing edge pointed up). If you drop the trailing edge, you will creating a nose down pitch that you will have to carry lots of up elevator to counter act. Both of these will add drag. If you have the time to play with it, what can it hurt to try? Worst case, you strip the wing and go back to the original airfoil.
If it was me, I would put the tip extensions on and fly the hell out of it. I really enjoyed flying my buddies MK IV with the extensions. Great roll rate (better than my HH wing) and I could get in and out just as short. Stall was damn near the same speed on both planes, with mine edging his out by only a couple MPH.
An Excerpt from Steve Widner off the Yahoo group several years ago that I saved....
The LATEST bungees that AVID Made --post 1993 were different than
earlier types. Mainly because the empty weight and gross weight
We in the Uk, found that the earlier bungees, a kind of SILVERY Outer
with Black flecks in them, were commercial Bungee cord as found in
sports stores etc. and very very weak / inconsistent in "stretchiness"
The book /manual just stated something like put as many wraps on as
you could get...not good---some people managed 6 others 8 and some
even 9--the more wraps the LESS stretch till finally no stretch and
then solid gear- heavy landing no stretch so they bent and broke the
seat truss, propeller, wing tip flaperon etc $$$$
We found that the OLD cord was too lightweight to comply with landing
gear loads and we found that a Mil Spec cord met all the requirment
necessary---- Kitfoxes went the same way!!
After 1993 Avid used Mil spec cord TOTALLY--we have done so ALL the time.
This cord is a Beigeish Outer Cottony braid with colored flecks in
it--the color could be just one color or maybe two--this is a date
code of manufacture so varies from batch to batch.
On all Avids, with these cords, the wraps are 7 and Seven only--you
cannot physically get more than 7--it just won't stretch that far.
(It is 8 full wraps on OUR WIDE Gear)
The way to wrap the bungee is to measure the overall length first.
Loop to Loop...should be around 90"
Divide this number by 7 (approx 13") (= number of wraps)
Start at one end of bungee and use a pencil/marker and measure/mark
6.5" ' ish
Then mark again at 19.5", 32.5", 45.5" and so on till end.
Last mark will be abouit 6.5" 'ish from loop
To install use two people... or Adult + Child
Put child inside cockpit and have them feed the cord thru the gap.
2nd person underneath..Hook cord on peg in cockpit and feed down thru gap.
Pull to first mark on bottom of gearleg..easy----about 3/8" stretch
put thumb on mark on gear leg--feed back up thru gap and get helper to
loop around seat truss and feed end back.
Pull end thru and get second mark on gear leg---
I'm going to be ordering a set of the bush spring gear from Highwing LLC this winter sometime. They just raised their price $200 recently though to $1495. They make it just over an hour away from me. It's basically the same thing Kitfox is selling but probably a little bit better product.
If you have the wide gear, then yes, I would go for 9 wraps.. Of course, you have to take into account how long the bungees are. I think they sent them out with varying length bungees because some use 7 or 8 wraps and dont have an issue, mine with 8 wraps will sag. I think on my brothers KF with the avid wide gear, his bungees were shorter and 7 wraps were OK on his.. Kind of a crap shoot depending on bungee length.
that's i want first, but i'd like the wing between stol and speed, and i realy wonder why this doesn't exist in avid worlds. Many speedwing criuse with a little flap on to lowering nose, why not give some flap to wings for all the time, and get hyper lift with less flapperon down for good rollrate.
I know playing with airfoil is risky, but thinking avid can fly with hyper cambered wing, the pitch moment of the "flapped wing" can't be more.
Anyway, i will discuss that with my odl engineer to see what he thinks about...
I have been seriously thinking about ordering a set of the bush gear so I dont have to mess with bungies anymore. I was certain that I needed 8 wrapps with this gear, but they are sagging with me and the kid in it, so I will have to add one more wrap and try that ( I should ahve logged how many wraps I put on it before). If I do go with the bush or spring gear, I will make you a hell of a deal on my wide gear.
If I were looking at replacing all the ribs, I would drill out the rivots on the drag tubes etc. and slide the old ribs off, then put the new ones on. You are probly looking at a couple hours worth of drilling on each wing. This would be much faster than trying to pull all the ribs apart, slide them inplace in peices, get everything aligned perfect, and re-gluing them. To remove the old ribs, you use a heat gun and soften up the old glue then pop it off with a putty knife.
The flaperons will get you all you need for slow flight, I would not mess with trying to droop the trailing edge, but that is just my opinion.
Been tying to get my cross country done but the winds have been gusting to 60 mph, at taxi speed even an ercoupe would be airborne, you guys are making me jealous at least I am getting more work done on my Avid.
your numbers sound good, as i espect less than 500lb on my C with minimum vfr instruments and noy too much washout, i can get better and Toff safely one pessenger on my 6% descent and 800ft long rnway...
i got an other question i'd like to have point of views :
What about just working on tail of ribs to get a kind of flapp on airfoil? This can be easy to do even with flapperons rib tails...and with little amount of drag. further, this would add some AOA for slower Land and Toffs. See atachement..
I have the extended aerobat wings. The plane flys great but I've never flown the STOL wing version. On mine takeoff and landing is truley as short as I would ever need. I havnt done a steep climb yet but at 70mph it shows 1000fpm climb. I cruise at 90mph on 5300 rpm with the 582. Stall is 40mph but my plane has alot of extras and empty weight is just under 600lbs. I'm pretty damn sure the speed wing and aerobat wing are the same airfoil but the aerobat has thicker spars and struts with more ribs. My buddy just bought a speedwing c model and after flying mine he is ordering the wing extensions.
at the time the wing is just in begining(ribs stuck on spares,drag tubes): i'm thinking of transforming my speed in stol wing, or just extend speedwing?
i try catch info everywhere, and i found just one positive opinion about extended wings: it is yours Leni. The fact is i can't buy a complete wing kit, and have to do the right choice for my short field.
i wonder if it is possible to replace a complete set of ribs on wing? what is the best way to unstick old ribs and place the new between spares and drag tubes?
Your right Joey,I dont have 1 to 1 ratio,the rudder moves more than the tailwheel so dont have a clue what I want until I try it.Ive got my takeoffs in the Vagabond down a little better so when the time comes I,ll see what happens.I used to think some of the tailwheel pilots around here were on some kind of an ego trip but now I think they earned it.Man it didnt come as easy as I thought.Randy
Try it and see what you think stock first. I went with the other arms just because I like my wheel releasing easily. They are easy to change and pretty cheap if you decide you want to change later on. The 35 degrees of rudder travel vs the 40 degree release is only true if your at a perfect 1:1 ratio. It all depends on the length of your arms, the angle of your spring, ect, ect. Good luck with your set up.
I have the opposite problem which might be of interest to you.
My tailwheel releases too easily due to the rudder stops being ground back too far. If the wheel releases at 40 degrees and the rudder is at 35 degrees, meaning that you need to add brake to get the wheel to release. Without this need for brake, the wheel will release with only rudder travel making the plane swivel too easily causing loss of control and then, getting it to re-engage is very difficult.
I have shims set up on the rudder stops to keep this from happening on mine...