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  1. akflyerbob


    Welcome to the site...most thought it was a good buy

    A lot of us saw the plane on craigslist and everyone had commented on the metalized wings

    Do you know how long the 582 has been setting?

    There are others in Anchorage that can help with project, you are in Anchorage??

    Are the whole wings metal or just the leading edge?

    The underside of the wing is "undercambered" for greater STOL preformance.

  2. lakertreetopflyer


    If you find another trailer deal like that = PLEASE, let me know.

    ED in MO

    Ed

    I have a boat trailer I had picked up to turn into a trailer for a plane.I no longer need it.If you are interested you can have it for $50 or trade for?????

    I kind of need it out of here.......my yard already looks like sanford and son.

    Brian

  3. lv2plyguitar


    Hi everyone,

    I am an Alaska resident and new to the forum and have transitioned from a quicksilver mx to an AVID Heavy Hauler.

    Can someone give me a brief run down on this plane i.e. its flight characteristics, etc. Does this plane require annual inspections? I am getting certified sport pilot and then working on the certificate of air worthiness.

    Thanks for your input.

    Jeff

  4. avidchh


    Couple of questions about towing:

    1. What diameter tires on Avid, and what speeds do you tow?

    2. How do you make it legal? Our laws require that a "trailer" (Anything being towed) have brake lights in daytime, and taillights/marker lights on at night.

    3. Then there is that old bugaboo, "Licanse": Can it be state-licensed as a trailer? Maybe the towbar?

    I know it is "Federally licensed", as an airplane - but not for being towed on a state road?

    Bet I could get a ticket before getting to airport!

    ED in MO

    P.S. Nice Job.

    Ed,

    I have 8" mains. The front is a 6" and is about 4" off the ground when hooked up. I've had it up to about 50mph without issue. Towbars are really for short hops, trailers for long distances. It's really not that legal without lights and the tires are not Utah DOT approved so I stay off state roads. I could add the lights and licensing but the local police and sheriffs have never bothered me, but then I only have about a ten minute drive from my shop or my home to the airport all on back city and county roads. Actually it's only ten minutes to most anywhere here.

  5. avidchh


    Hey Stephen,

    Nice Injuneering job on the towbar! I tried like hell to figure out how to do that before I got a factory towbar from Mike Rickets . Have you towed with that bar yet? Is the fork welded to the towbar? Bryce

    Hey Bryce,

    Used it a lot before I converted to trigear and then changed the bend angle to accommodate and then up until the incident. Just about ready to fly again! Finished the rebuild and had it inspected last week. Need to do engine run ups then taxi testing then... go for it. The single square tube is clamped to the fork. It probably didn't need to be as heavy duty but I get carried away with 'it won't break now.' Did you ever put that wide gear on?

    Stephen

  6. EDMO


    Couple of questions about towing:

    1. What diameter tires on Avid, and what speeds do you tow?

    2. How do you make it legal? Our laws require that a "trailer" (Anything being towed) have brake lights in daytime, and taillights/marker lights on at night.

    3. Then there is that old bugaboo, "Licanse": Can it be state-licensed as a trailer? Maybe the towbar?

    I know it is "Federally licensed", as an airplane - but not for being towed on a state road?

    Bet I could get a ticket before getting to airport!

    ED in MO

    P.S. Nice Job.

  7. BryceKat


    Some pics of a towbar I fabricated and use with my Avid Trigear. Can easily be adapted for a tailwheel by changing the bend angle of the towbar.

    Hey Stephen,

    Nice Injuneering job on the towbar! I tried like hell to figure out how to do that before I got a factory towbar from Mike Rickets . Have you towed with that bar yet? Is the fork welded to the towbar? Bryce

  8. avidchh


    Some pics of a towbar I fabricated and use with my Avid Trigear. Can easily be adapted for a tailwheel by changing the bend angle of the towbar.

    post-211-13492848994562_thumb.jpg

    post-211-13492849453761_thumb.jpg

    post-211-13492849601314_thumb.jpg

    post-211-13492849876856_thumb.jpg

  9. 6320012s


    Hey Joey,

    I talked about my VG's some on here but can't remember where. I don't think they made a great difference in shortening my takeoff or landing distances but they did seem to make quite an improvement to my aeleron authority. I found this to be a great improvement with the MKIV since I could get very little left stick movement with my winter gear on and leg pressed against the door. Also the VG's under the horizontal were a big improvement in elevator control. Between the two it made flying the plane in turbulence a lot more comfortable and probably did lower the stall speed some but at a pretty high angle of attack, so not sure how usable that is.

    I think I placed mine at 10% of the wing chord and would recommend that you go much less than that; at least no greater than 7%. After looking at the most the cubs I have seen they seem to have them place anywhere from 2 to 6 of inches behind the leading edge and with a lot wider chord wing. I surmise that further forward probably works better at a higher angle of attack. It would be nice to use double sided tape and try a couple positions but it takes a long time to put them all on and I didn't look forward to doing it multiple times so I just went with the manufacturers recomendation. On my next wings I plan to put them further forward though. Hopefully you can give me your recommendation then.

    I found the same results with my VG's . didn't seem to be much penalty if any with cruise, and no big difference in stall, but much more aeleron authority and putting them on the tail really helped with flare authority. I also sealed the gap in the elevator which helped a lot. If I remember correctly, I placed mine at the 10% point but with double sided tape. I used the tape in case I wanted to take them off or move them, but they are still held on with the tape two years later. Good Tape!

  10. EDMO


    Ed, I have to agree that you can land the tricycle gear plane as short as the tail dragger and you can get off faster in my experience due to the ability to rotate to a greater degree, but I don't think they handle big rocks nearly as well and they are terrible about getting rock chips in the prop. When I had my MKIV on trycycle gear I would get half a dozen prop chips with every flight, even just on good gravel strips. The prop needs to be 20" or more from the ground or you will be constantly fixing chips. The other thing is if you want to use your bird on skis, you better stick to packed landing areas or very little snow. Besides, everyone knows that real men fly tail draggers. :stirthepot:

    SKIS? You mean those things that crunch on gravel and smoke on concrete? SNOW? You greedy Alaskans keep most of it - we are lucky to see the grass covered on Christmas!

    ROCKS? I have heard of those - hard to find in our pastures, but keeping tailskid on ground until stopped keeps the prop out of most of them.

    Jesting, of course - flown both types - just got a very stiff neck from old injuries and would rather look over the nose instead of out the side. Both types have their nich - yes, tail ski is better. Floats dont know which wheel is there.

    I am just not a "bi-engine" pilot, but could be someday! :lol:

    ED in MO

  11. SuberAvid


    I wanna come!! Randy I just noticed you have VG's. Is there a thread someplace about your install and results? I have my Stolspeed set sitting on the work bench just trying to get a little more info before I go sticking them on. JG of Stolspeed in Aussie land told me 90mm from the leading edge.

    Joey

    Hey Joey,

    I talked about my VG's some on here but can't remember where. I don't think they made a great difference in shortening my takeoff or landing distances but they did seem to make quite an improvement to my aeleron authority. I found this to be a great improvement with the MKIV since I could get very little left stick movement with my winter gear on and leg pressed against the door. Also the VG's under the horizontal were a big improvement in elevator control. Between the two it made flying the plane in turbulence a lot more comfortable and probably did lower the stall speed some but at a pretty high angle of attack, so not sure how usable that is.

    I think I placed mine at 10% of the wing chord and would recommend that you go much less than that; at least no greater than 7%. After looking at the most the cubs I have seen they seem to have them place anywhere from 2 to 6 of inches behind the leading edge and with a lot wider chord wing. I surmise that further forward probably works better at a higher angle of attack. It would be nice to use double sided tape and try a couple positions but it takes a long time to put them all on and I didn't look forward to doing it multiple times so I just went with the manufacturers recomendation. On my next wings I plan to put them further forward though. Hopefully you can give me your recommendation then.

  12. SuberAvid


    Nice pics Randy!

    I love flying into the sunset / sunrise pics. We are so fortunate to see views that others only dream of or don't even realize that they are missing out.

    Thanks again for checking on the bird for me! Hope to get things straightend out soon and get ready for the winter flying season. We need to organize a good flyin trip this winter. I can have John haul in lots of gas so we will have a good stash to get out and play. It was fun hitting rainy pass and I know there are alot of other places we can hit for those $200.00 hamburgers :lol:

    I would love to get some more Avid / Kitfox drivers to come out and play for a weekend.

    :BC:

    YES! We have got to get out and do another winter flyout with the lodge as base. That was just a blast the last time and it would be a lot of fun to get more planes and explore some farther reaches. I have yet to go through Rainy Pass and out to McGrath which would be pretty cool if the weather cooperated. Also a buddy has a cabin that they have kind of taken over caretaking and fixed up on Fog Lake north of Talkeetna that would be a fun one to visit, and I hear that Chelatna Lake Lodge may stay open in the winter also. I am sure we will find a lot of cool places to check out if we have plenty of gas.

    Dave, glad to hear you are good to go! Bob, WSY? Joey, I expect you will have figured out how to get your machine loaded in the corner of the C5 for a hop to Elmendorf about that time? I'm sure we can drum up a set of skis for you to borrow. Sounds like a blast.

  13. SuberAvid


    Hi Twister,

    Welcome to the Forum. I have read all of the good advice you have recieved and your very thoughtful questions. The advice and information that has been given is very good and accurate but I think you might be worrying these planes more than necessary. In my opinion they are about the easiest and most forgiving birds you can fly. They have certain characteristics just like any planes so you have to get to know them but no more than any other plane. The light weight and high drag just means that they are good at STOL and slow flight. They are amazingly easy in a stall, in fact lock the stick in you stumock and leave it there and they will just mush and sink without falling off on a wing like the cesna's. As soon as the nose drops they fly again. When I first got my Avid MKIV it had tricycle gear on it and I always said you could throw it at the ground and it would land itself. The tail draggers take a little more attention and the first thing I would recommend on them is immediately change the gear to wide gear if you get one without it. With wide gear they are about as easy to land as any tail dragger.

    The fun of having one is geting to know it and learning how to get teh most out of it. I use full flaps (26 degrees ) on mine for about every landing. I try to not pull on flaps unless I am below 80 mph just so I don't over stress the rib tails but I slip mine hard with full flaps and have never had any issues doing both at the same time. If you are coming over trees on a short strip you have to to get it down fast and they do a good job of it.

    Ed, I have to agree that you can land the tricycle gear plane as short as the tail dragger and you can get off faster in my experience due to the ability to rotate to a greater degree, but I don't think they handle big rocks nearly as well and they are terrible about getting rock chips in the prop. When I had my MKIV on trycycle gear I would get half a dozen prop chips with every flight, even just on good gravel strips. The prop needs to be 20" or more from the ground or you will be constantly fixing chips. The other thing is if you want to use your bird on skis, you better stick to packed landing areas or very little snow. Besides, everyone knows that real men fly tail draggers. :stirthepot:

    Folding the wings in these things is preatty fast; probably 15 minutes by yourself leasurely, if you know what you are doing. I trailered my MK IV all the time before I had a hangar and I trailered it to different places I wanted to fly from. The nice thing is, you can drive through the nasty weather and fly when youget to the good stuff.

  14. Av8r3400


    Av8r, what wings do your Mark 4's have on them? Have you described them anywhere? Do you have stock gear or wide gear? When you use flaps (flaperons?), are there any special cautions to follow when slipping with 20°? I've heard stories, but don't know the level of competence of the authors. If you lost an engine or power on approach, what procedures would you follow?

    Thanks again!

    My Kitfox (and my friend's hybrid) have the latest Kitfox wing airfoil. It is a laminar flow Ribblett design, starting with the Model IV Kitfox and continuing today through the latest SS model VII.

    My plane has the Grove spring gear, which is wider than stock but no taller.

    The more flap you put in the less "up" elevator authority you have. With my plane's rigging, full flap is 26° and to land with that I need to have the elevator against the stop (all the way back) in order to keep the nose up to land. It doesn't really flair in that configuration. It will settle down to the ground at about 30 mph. I do not have any issue with inversion (flapperon stall causing roll control reversal) at this setting.

    I usually land power off so I would not do much differently with a power loss situation.

  15. Twister


    My friend (who just built the Avid/Kitfox hybrid) has his own strip at his home. His strip is 1600' long, 1500' MSL, but built on the top of a knoll, with the center 20' higher than the ends. Also there are 70' trees on the north end, 20' on the south. This scenario means that landing from the north requires some skill and technique. Landing from the south is a non-event. He flew a Vagabond for years and his technique was to fly a normal approach, clear the trees, pull power to idle and push the nose down and flare at normal height and you're done. Easy-peasy. I tried this method once in my Kitfox. I still was floating at the top of the hill so a go-around was mandatory.

    My technique to land at his place, now, is all about energy management. 60 mph on down wind, 55 on base and no more than 50 on final. Full flaps, 20°, helps. I aim to put the wheels on the tree tops, which will give 10' or so of clearance. Just as I clear the trees, I kick full slip, sink to 5-10', straighten out and land. If I have done it right, I touch down at 35-40 mph and easily stop by the top of the hill.

    So in answer to your question, flaps and slipping can be used together to still land short over an obstacle. But the main thing is speed and energy control on approach.

    Av8r, what wings do your Mark 4's have on them? Have you described them anywhere? Do you have stock gear or wide gear? When you use flaps (flaperons?), are there any special cautions to follow when slipping with 20°? I've heard stories, but don't know the level of competence of the authors. If you lost an engine or power on approach, what procedures would you follow?

    Thanks again!

  16. Twister


    Well, the old flyer just took his memory pill, which he forgot to take this morning!

    I do have the remains of a Kitfox that landed in a tree on a departure scenario, which happened many years ago:

    The builder put a "too-small" wire on his fuel pump and it burned out on takeoff - Could have happened with any engine.

    He is still flying.

    ED in MO

    Waal, I can't even spel electrishun, so I sympathize with him. Luckily, I have y'all and an 82-year-old buddy who is an A&P to be my guardian angels.

  17. Twister


    My friend (who just built the Avid/Kitfox hybrid) has his own strip at his home. His strip is 1600' long, 1500' MSL, but built on the top of a knoll, with the center 20' higher than the ends. Also there are 70' trees on the north end, 20' on the south. This scenario means that landing from the north requires some skill and technique. Landing from the south is a non-event. He flew a Vagabond for years and his technique was to fly a normal approach, clear the trees, pull power to idle and push the nose down and flare at normal height and you're done. Easy-peasy. I tried this method once in my Kitfox. I still was floating at the top of the hill so a go-around was mandatory.

    My technique to land at his place, now, is all about energy management. 60 mph on down wind, 55 on base and no more than 50 on final. Full flaps, 20°, helps. I aim to put the wheels on the tree tops, which will give 10' or so of clearance. Just as I clear the trees, I kick full slip, sink to 5-10', straighten out and land. If I have done it right, I touch down at 35-40 mph and easily stop by the top of the hill.

    So in answer to your question, flaps and slipping can be used together to still land short over an obstacle. But the main thing is speed and energy control on approach.

    Thanks Av8r, I've got a lot to learn, and if I ever get off the ground again, this kind of information will be a big help in getting me trained up.

  18. Twister


    Sport Aviation and Kitplanes magazines sometimes have the Federal Government reports or summaries - problem is, the government treats all "non-certified" aircraft as the same, gyrocopters, amateur built airplanes, etc., and does not divide reports by type of engine either.

    The only report I have put on here, or have seen, was about a rough landing with a factory certified Luscomb.

    I think there have been a couple of other mishaps, but not departure accidents.

    ED in MO (now enjoying over 60 years of flying)

    P.S. When you look at statistics; "The most dangerous part of flying is driving to and from the airport."

    Thanks, Ed. I've been flying since '62, but not that many hours and have been on the ground for close to fifteen years now. I flew quite a variety of aircraft, from champs to T-34's, but I liked the Citabria the best. The fact that you've survived all those years says a lot about the value of your ideas and advice. I'm 74, and with the exception of a few ailments and broken pieces, just as eager to fly as I was in '62. I will have to fly sport rules if I manage to get a good bird cheap enough, and my wife thinks I'm crazy (she's usually right), but if I can clear those obstacles, I may yet get into the air again, largely thanks to you and your amis on this great site!

  19. Twister


    I'm just a newbie cheechako from the extreme SW of the 48, but I just want to wish y'all the best and say that being a bush pilot in Alaska was my boyhood dream that I never realized. I have the greatest respect for you, and am sorry this happened to you. I wish I was capable of helping you.

  20. Av8r3400


    Brain to expand on something that Leni said: It was recommended to me to remove the cam-plate from my Maul tailwheel (removing the ability to full swivel) until I was very proficient with the plane. This bit of advise saved my butt at least a couple of times in the early hours. I replaced the cam plate when I got to about 50 hours.

    Look at this

    Watch the tail wheel closely. This is with the plate installed. The deflection of the rudder during the semi cross wind landing, caused the wheel to unlock. This was a near disaster that my brakes saved me from.
  21. Av8r3400


    Oops! I may have jumped the gun in my earlier responses to this post--newbie ignorance again? If this wing causes excessive floating, could that mess up short-field landings in the absence of something to kill lift at the right moment? This reminds me of yet another question--slipping. With a plane that glides like a rock anyway, if one wanted to clear some obstacles on approach and "hit" the threshold on or before "the numbers," does one use flaperons, slip, or both without taking out the gear or something even more precious? Really, I'm that ignorant of how these aircraft are operated . . .

    My friend (who just built the Avid/Kitfox hybrid) has his own strip at his home. His strip is 1600' long, 1500' MSL, but built on the top of a knoll, with the center 20' higher than the ends. Also there are 70' trees on the north end, 20' on the south. This scenario means that landing from the north requires some skill and technique. Landing from the south is a non-event. He flew a Vagabond for years and his technique was to fly a normal approach, clear the trees, pull power to idle and push the nose down and flare at normal height and you're done. Easy-peasy. I tried this method once in my Kitfox. I still was floating at the top of the hill so a go-around was mandatory.

    My technique to land at his place, now, is all about energy management. 60 mph on down wind, 55 on base and no more than 50 on final. Full flaps, 20°, helps. I aim to put the wheels on the tree tops, which will give 10' or so of clearance. Just as I clear the trees, I kick full slip, sink to 5-10', straighten out and land. If I have done it right, I touch down at 35-40 mph and easily stop by the top of the hill.

    So in answer to your question, flaps and slipping can be used together to still land short over an obstacle. But the main thing is speed and energy control on approach.

  22. EDMO


    Thanks Ed

    I have the FAA(we are not happy until you are not happy)stuff.Just looking for the official avid flight manual.

    I picked up an open trailer from a kitfox today from a buddy for $200 bucks.I already started the mods tonight to let the wide gear fit on there.

    Pretty good deal!!

    Brian in MO

    If you find another trailer deal like that = PLEASE, let me know.

    ED in MO

  23. lakertreetopflyer


    Brian,

    I dont know if there is an Avid book on flying it, but it should be in some of the manuals.

    I am a Kitfox builder (which is an Avid Mod) and there is a book on flying the Kitfox which might help some.

    The FAA puts out a circular on "Test flying amateur-built airplanes", and I can get the number for you - think I

    also have some Kitfox info on that subject too.

    Sounds like your wide gear is a lot better than the standard gear.

    The Avid flyers on here have lots of experience with these machines, and I hope it helps you.

    ED in STL

    Thanks Ed

    I have the FAA(we are not happy until you are not happy)stuff.Just looking for the official avid flight manual.

    I picked up an open trailer from a kitfox today from a buddy for $200 bucks.I already started the mods tonight to let the wide gear fit on there.

    Pretty good deal!!

    Brian in MO

  24. EDMO


    Sport Aviation and Kitplanes magazines sometimes have the Federal Government reports or summaries - problem is, the government treats all "non-certified" aircraft as the same, gyrocopters, amateur built airplanes, etc., and does not divide reports by type of engine either.

    The only report I have put on here, or have seen, was about a rough landing with a factory certified Luscomb.

    I think there have been a couple of other mishaps, but not departure accidents.

    ED in MO (now enjoying over 60 years of flying)

    P.S. When you look at statistics; "The most dangerous part of flying is driving to and from the airport."

    Well, the old flyer just took his memory pill, which he forgot to take this morning!

    I do have the remains of a Kitfox that landed in a tree on a departure scenario, which happened many years ago:

    The builder put a "too-small" wire on his fuel pump and it burned out on takeoff - Could have happened with any engine.

    He is still flying.

    ED in MO