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  1. marshawk


    Doug , would it be possible to add a flat bottom on the undercamber HH riblettes I have to build them like a speed wing riblette, It would add a little weight but dont think it would be to difficult but not sure if that would cause other issues, I know I would have to also deal the fuel tanks.

  2. EDMO


    If you can get the symmetrical flaperons, you may be better off - Riblett said that the flat-bottom flaperons were a drag just like the undercambered ribs.

    EDMO

  3. Av8r3400


    $.02 of advise is to use the Kitfox Flapperons as well as the wing.  They are part of the system that makes the wing work.

  4. marshawk


    Thanks Doug always appreciate the knowledge you have stored up. I will seriouly look at the kitfox rib now that you mention not having to worry about extending the wing and which ever way I go will be using the removable kitfox wing tips, Thanks again

  5. jackak


    No problem Luke.  There seems to be more than one side to every product or discussion, we can learn from each other.  I'm waiting for my ignition system from Ram Performance so I can have dependable dual ignitions and am dealing with fuel issues in the wing tank installation.  I've got a leaking fitting  and need to seal around the filler necks so fuel can'tget into the wing and mess up the paint job.  The leaking fitting caused fuel to drip onto the full glass (lexan) door.  Guess what happened?  I'll be replacing the lexan with an acrylic product that resists fuel damage.  Touch up painting will follow on the messed up paint.  

    Oh well, live and learn, better on the ground than in the air.

     

    Jack

  6. EDMO


    Wolverine,

         Here are 3 photos of the Wing Support Assembly.

    I bought 3  PVC Schedule 40 pipes 10 feet long,

                  6  Elbows

                  2  T's

                      Glue

    The uprights and the 30 inch solid bottom tubes were not glued to the elbows and T's of the 15 inch tubes, but that might be necessary.  The two uprights have not been cut to length yet.   Another possibility is to insert a smaller tube into shortened uprights and drill and bolt it, or put a band clamp on it, when telescoped to the right height.

    I should have rotated the center photo, but too late now.

    Hope this may help someone.

    EDMO

    post-399-0-47268800-1408155352_thumb.jpg

    post-399-0-28836400-1408155527_thumb.jpg

    post-399-0-18113100-1408155558_thumb.jpg

    1 person likes this
  7. EDMO


    I will try to post some photos of the supports in a couple of days - As far as progress on my Foxy Flapper - work is slowly getting done - I am mostly working alone with an injured shoulder - nearest help is 20 miles away - the only aircraft welder is 50 miles away - I have the main gear on and the parts to make the nose gear but a little more welding is needed - wings are 90% and other parts are sitting on the shelf or waiting to be made - I will post a photo of the gears as soon as I can install the nose gear.  Flaps and ailerons are next to be built from scratch and will post some photos when that is completed.  The support photos will be on this post - The plane photos will be in "Foxy Flapper Fotos" in the Kitfox IV section.

    EdMO

  8. dholly


    Yes, you want the KF 4-7 Riblett airfoil. KF 1-3 airfoil is almost a dead nuts copy of Avid HH airfoil, great STOL performance but both hit an aerodynamic wall around 90-95 mph due to the significant under camber. Anything more you are burning thru exponentially more fuel for incrementally smaller speed gains. The Riblett airfoil will get you in the air almost as quick but efficiently cruise at 110-115 mph all day long. If you use that airfoil, you also probably won't need the wing extensions as the 144" spar tube length you have is almost as long as the KF wing. Obviously, many KF 4-1200 Speedsters flying with the Riblett airfoil on shorter spars just fine!

    FWIW, I am using KF 4-7 Hoerner tips on my A+ wings with Avid speed ribs @ 12" o.c., the tips will add an additional 6-8" of wing length without the need for a separate section of wing extension. The KF wingtip design also makes it easy to fabricate removable tips, something the oem Avid tips do not. This is a plus for internal wing inspection, storage considerations (buddy here would remove wingtips in order to fit shorter, folded plane in his barn for winter storage, or just plain fun (I also have KF droop and KF standard non-Hoerner tips to interchange when the mood strikes).

    Keep in mind, KF wing tips for models 4-7 cross closely to Avid speed/Aerobat rib profile, NOT Avid Heavy Hauler/STOL rib profile. If you use the Avid HH ribs and are looking for alternatives to the oem Avid fixed tips, you will need to modify the oem tips or source the KF 1-3 tips for under cambered ribs. As Ed mentioned, most of these KF 1-3 tips were the 'droop' style tips but I do believe Skystar also offered the smaller, standard non-Hoerner tips sometime during model 3 production as an option. Just make sure it is for the under cambered rib as the current wing tips are much harder to modify In my experience.

  9. wolves200


    Hey ED; post them please! not that I need them now, but is never wrong to see building methods, jigs, fixtures, etc, etc, so we can go back and look whenever is need it...

     

    post them all, All of them!

     

    would be nice to see your progress of the whole project...

     

    Regards

    Dimi3

  10. wolves200


    I take off from a very short grass strip, I used them alot, mine are set 15 deg. either full or none for take off and landing...

     

    I start the take off roll with no flaps, lift the tail wheel as soon as possible, when I reach 35kt  pull full flap and back the stick a little. Rest is history!

     

    for landing, I come with full until I´m about to touch the ground, then I retract them fully to reduce ground effect and I will stop very fast.

     

    like Leny and Jeoy said, without flaps, is like having a muscle car on bicycle wheels!!

     

    Regards

    Dimi3

  11. marshawk


    Thanks guys for the info, maybe I will l price out some kitfox Ribs and flaperons ( Kitfox 4 is what i would be after I think) I will have to read  up on it again but if I remember I would gain alot of airspeed and still have the same   stall speed. I may take you up on that Ed but probably wont get nothing started till winter, to dam busy right now.

  12. EDMO


    In case anyone wants some photos, I am in the process of building two wing supports out of 1 1/2 inch schedule 40 PVC pipes.   These can be your missing person if you ever need to support a wing.

    I need them to hold the wings while two of us tack-weld the new struts and fittings.  I will have a mostly bare fuselage with no engine or ballast to keep it from tipping over.

    Another thought, these fold and store and could be used for a temporary support under one wing while you fold the other under less than ideal conditions without a helper. 

    I am sure that they could be made in smaller pieces for more convenience - you can always improve on an original design.

    Post if you want photos, dimensions, etc.

    EdMO

  13. dholly


    Score! Now you go from 1050 to 1150 or 1200 lb. MTOW, big plus with your FWF. You won't find any aluminum extruded stiffeners for the .083" spars but check the A+ forum for pics and rational of the quick and easy wood stiffener mod I did. I think it would be easy to add a 12"-24" wing extension using simple internal tube sleeve joints on the spars when you are starting from scratch. Two or three additional ribs and a drag tube per side, essentially. I would use a set of non-droop KF 3 tips (slight modification required) and make them removable to use with or without the wing extension in place. It certainly is easy enough to use the Riblett KF4 ribs instead of the Avid HH ribs, but then you'd need the KF flaperons. I don't see why the KF wings/flaperons wouldn't work with our teleflex cable flaperon controls, although it might require repositioning the flaperon control horns or perhaps different length cables. To be honest, I think that airfoil is so superior that it might be worth the trouble.

  14. EDMO


    Another surprise - Referring to the Axle Grease threads: I got my Grove nosewheel yesterday - the bearings had RED GREASE in them!  Ha!

    EdMO

  15. Av8r3400


    A brass bushing will gall against steel and have a very high coefficient of friction.  You are probably thinking of a bronze bushing (tin-copper as opposed to zinc-copper alloy).

     

    The Bronze will be more impact tolerant than the PVC (softer material) and will last longer at a resistance tightness.

     

     

     

     

    (yes I am an engineer and yes I used to work for a bearing company.   :lam:   )

    1 person likes this
  16. EDMO


    Bearings for nosewheel pivot shaft:  Which would have the greater friction - 2 inches of brass bushing, or 4 inches of PVC?  Weight and Wear and Cost are not a consideration, since the nosewheel pivot gets less use than the PVC bearings for flaperon hangers.

    Thanks,

    EDMO