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How about some more info on these?  For what engine?

Photo?

ED in MO

Trying to download for Nate, a photo of L-19 Birddog with 7th Army markings flying over Germany.  Note - this is an older model, smaller engine, fixed prop.

ED in MO

Anyone tried the aluminum radiators from china on ebay?

I was noticing how heavy mine was when I installed it the other day.....

I was referring to the Federal Revenue Agents who track down illegal stills where the White-Lightning, or Moonshine, is being made, so that the government can control the trade and collect taxes - Now known as the BATF, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. Just joking!

You need to watch the movie "THUNDER ROAD". ;>)

This is how Jimmy Johnson and other moonshine drivers got started in auto racing as we know it today.

Thanks for the reply!

The 2.58 reduction sounds like you could run a big prop or high rpms on your Soob.

ED in MO

I can do 120 mph without them.

 

I can still fly at less than 35 mph without them.

 

 

 

I'm happy without them.     

 

 

(I don't have farings on my jury struts, h-stab struts or door handles, either...)

I think you just made my point in asking the question - If I had your 120mph wings I wouldn't worry about reducing drag - I can either try to make my STOL wings more efficient, or build another set from scratch - and I am running short on time - want to get back to flying and stop building.

ED in MO

Ed- how'd you like flying the L-19? I have seen a few around and they look like quite the aircraft. Did you get much time in them? I think someone out near Birchwood has one of the Italian turbine Bird-Dogs. He had it out at the aviation tradeshow a few years ago, interesting machine.

 

-Nate

Nate,

The Birddog was the hottest thing I got to fly in the Army - Big engine (at that time), constant-speed prop, and 60 degree flaps. Flying into military fields is exciting too, since you don't follow the civilian rules and patterns. The only time I felt like I was in a "pipsqueak" was when two fighter-jets came upon my tail over Germany and each did a barrel-roll as they passed by at about 500 mph just off of each of my wingtips! I think I was one of their "kills" for that day!

I wanted to buy one after I got discharged, but young and dumb, and still needing education, I was told that it could not be licensed for civilians because of the 60 degree flaps. I came back to the U.S.A. and started commercial pilot training. Only years later, when prices on the L-19 were so high that I couldn't afford one, did I find out that my earlier information was wrong.

Oh well, now we have more "high performance" planes to fly, like the Avid and Kitfox.

ED in MO

Old thread, but I'm an old fart with a few minutes so I'll toss in another .02 cents.

 

Make no mistake, with all other variables equal, there will be a BIG performance difference in performance between aircraft using Avid's longer undercambered wings (Heavy Hauler or STOL) or short flat bottom wings (Aerobat or Speedwing). And with all due respect, anyone thinking that an Avid Speedwing or Aerobat is appropriate for water or STOL ops (particularly on a heavier Mk-IV vs, lighter A,B,C model) simply has not done much homework. My personal observations include a local buddy who must weigh all of 160lbs. soaking wet and drove many hours up into Canada to buy a relatively bare-bones, manual start 582-powered C model speedwing on AquaFloats, He couldn't even break suction and get the bird off the water solo. Had I known, I would have discouraged or advised him that he would need to purchase or build longer STOL wings. BTW, he just sold it. Compare that to another local 200+lb. buddy who regularly flies his 582 KF3 with an avg size spouse on the same floats. Obviously a short flat bottom Avid wing vs. a long undercambered Kitfox wing, but the early KF 1-3 and Avid undercamber ribs are almost identical and the rest of the planes so similar it makes the point.

 

That is not to say all Avid Aerobats or Speedwings are useless if enjoyed as Dean Wilson envisioned ie., light and fast. Safe to say he didn't expect or intend to design STOL characteristics in the Speedwing airfoil. Never the less, with a few simple tweeks I think they might appeal to a larger audience than many give them credit for. Leni has repeatedly recounted his personal experience with an Avid extended speedwing (IIRC, a 582 C model with wing extension kit) and swears performance was not far behind the Avid STOL or HH wings which he has plenty of experience with (and he ain't exactly on the Atkins Diet, no offense brother!). I am not a fan of the extensions, IMO excessive wing twist results from adding an extension kit to already spec-built speed/aerobat wings and creates negative implications to both STOL and top end performance.

 

That said, I had absolutely no hesitation building hybrid wings for my Avid+, using single long spars with less twist and substituting speed ribs for undercambered. I know it will offer less STOL performance than the HH wing. But with a 26% increase in both wing area and aspect vs. a Speedwing, it will also offer a hell of a lot more STOL performance than a short spar Aerobat or Speed wing ever could. In fact, comments from others flying a hybrid long wing like mine, I fully expect my Avid+ will offer performance much, much closer to a standard Avid HH than a standard Avid Speedwing. For this plane, I'll gladly give up a little short field performance for the ability to break through that 100mph aerodynamic wall and cruise consistently at 120+mph while sipping fuel.

 

Whether they get a fair shot or not, I think blanket statements and over expectations have caused a generally negative inference to the Avid Speedwing, as well as lower resale prices compared to STOL or HH wing equipped Avids. That could make for some terrific bargains for knowledgeable buyers. Heck, find a cheap B or C model Speedwing then buy or build a new set of HH or long (not extended) hybrid Aerobat/Speed wings and you got a winner at what likely would be less than a complete, used Avid with HH wings. Plus you got an extra set of wings to futz around with or sell. Or bolt a 912ul on an Avid Mk-IV Speedwing for what I suspect would be a very nice plane.

Ed- how'd you like flying the L-19? I have seen a few around and they look like quite the aircraft. Did you get much time in them? I think someone out near Birchwood has one of the Italian turbine Bird-Dogs. He had it out at the aviation tradeshow a few years ago, interesting machine.

 

-Nate

Hi Ed, Randy , sorry was gone for the weekend just noticed your reply, Ed I built the firewall with tips from Randy, I just cut out the flat piece of galvanized sheet metal then  riveted on the angled pieces round the outer edge.The smoker is my brothers wood boiler he build nothing illegal lol.Not sure what a Reveenooers are ,I'm a little slow so will have to google it

  Randy , I got the engine with the rest of plane that was built by a fellow named Karlo Khunner,its a 2.58 gear reduction and the engine is supposed to be tweeked up to put out 100 hp or more.The gear drive actually has the engine oil running threw it at a reduced pressure. It sounding real good and luckly my brother is a mechanic so were getting all the bugs out. I learnt a good lesson a couple weeks ago while we were running up the engine in front of his shop ,the prop sucked up a rock and made a mess of the nickle plated tip , nothing a couple hundred dollars couldnt fix though.Thanks again for all the help really appreciate it

Leni- My Sedan has the 180 HP engine in it with a seaplane prop. It also has seaplane doors on both sides (they came from the factory with only one door on the co-pilot side). The engine was installed some time in the 60's on an airframe specific STC, not Burl Roger's STC. There's quite a bit of room in the cabin, but I might look into installing a baggage door sometime down the road. It flies great, kind of like an old truck (in a good way!)

  Part of me wanted to keep the Searey, but it was like owning a motorcycle when a station wagon is needed. That, and they aren't really built for Alaska. One of the more active members on the Searey forum recommends rebuilding a Searey after 5 years or 500 hours (?!). The current owner lives overseas in the winter, so an amphib works very well for him.

 

Ed- I'm glad you made the post, it is quite easy to do this. Hopefully more people will put a post up. I don't have a picture of my Avid. It's a bare airframe and wings. It had a blue paint job. It suffered a wreck when the pilot stalled it during landing.

 

-Nate

There was a speed wing Mk 4 on my field with a 582 in it.  I don't know if it had the long or short wing, but it would barely climb with 12 gallons of fuel and two 180 pound guys in it.  Total, total dog.  The owner bought it to fly off floats.  He quickly found out that was not going to happen.

 

The owner sold it and bought a Challenger II with a 503.  A much better performer, I'm sad to say.

 

 

IMO - An Avid Speedwing is not worth buying, unless it comes with another set of wings or is cheap enough you can build/buy another set of wings.

I can do 120 mph without them.

 

I can still fly at less than 35 mph without them.

 

 

 

I'm happy without them.     

 

 

(I don't have farings on my jury struts, h-stab struts or door handles, either...)

Dan I only know what I've read about them. From what I've heard with the extensions they work well. Leni has real world experience with the speeding I do not.

Has anyone installed these fairings, or read the instructions for adding them?

Do they get glued to the wing tanks? Does the fabric go around them, or do they go over the fabric? My tank caps stick up about 1 inch above the tanks.

Are they worth buying?

Barnaby Wainfain - the aerodynamics expert - says that the cap protrusion can make a very large turbulent area behind the cap if left unfaired, up to 18 times the size of the cap, causing excess drag and loss of lift.

Any comments?

ED in MO

Someone with the brains and bucks of Jeff Gordon would never open himself to the slam-dunk criminal prosecution and civil lawsuit that would have resulted of that being real.

Sorry to be a buzzkill.

For anyone not familiar with Flabob, you need only look as far as this month's
issue of Sport Aviation (EAA's main publication).

http://www.eaa.org/sportaviationmag/

You can also check out:

www.flabob.org
www.eaach1.org

Bruce

 

Where did you see it was fake Larry? If it is that guy is a damn good actor!! His oh shit face is pretty genuine!

Fake, but still funny...  

Seen this elsewhere but the looks on that guys face are freakin hilarious!!

Thanks for posting Nate. I had a friend in Anchorage who flew the Sedan - sorry that I never got to fly it before coming back South. Like the photos of your Planes - Would like to see your Avid too.

I hope others will see that it don't take much effort to post something of interest about themselves or their birds.

Best wishes,

ED in MO

Howdy Nate!  I am still miffed at ya for winning my sea rey.. I knew for sure I had bought the winning ticket on that one!    Looking forwards to some flying fishing camping trips one of these days.

 

I guess most people see the name of the site and thing its just about Avid's or kitfox's, but I am all about having it alot like BCP where guys hang out just to talk flying and trips they have been on etc.

 

A buddy up here has a balled up Sedan that he loved and still swears he will rebuild one day.. The old Alaskan story of "I think I can get out of here with that extra moose quarter in it" kinda thing..  What engine do you have in yours?

 

 I remember my father talking about doing this. Years ago he had a Cessna 180. In the winter he was using wheel penetration skis (I don't remember the brand). I've never flown wheel penetration skis, but I understand them to be a compromise between utility and performance. Taking off from snow in lousy conditions he said he'd tape visqueen to the skis. While not performing exactly like a straight ski, it was a big difference. Once back in town, landing on pavement was a non-event as the pavement ate away the visqueen under the tires. Obviously a one-time use set-up, but it sounded like it could make the difference between a go and a no-go.

 

-Nate

 Hello! My name is Nate. I don't post a whole lot on this forum, but I enjoy seeing what everybody else is up to. I was born and raised in Anchorage. We moved out of state a few times growing up but my family always returned to Alaska. I work on the north slope. 

 

 I earned my license in '99. For years I owned a nice little Cessna 140. Great little airplane, but it didn't have enough seats once the kiddos (two) started showing up. After I sold the 140 I won a Searey in a raffle. Although a nice little amphib, it was still just two seats and setting it up for skis was out of the question. So I was able to transform the Searey into my current aircraft, an Aeronca Sedan. I can't say enough about what an awesome plane it is. I can load up the family and get out of town. It's not real fast but it's very comfortable. I thought the previous owner was exaggerating when he said that it'd be easier to fly than the 140, but it's true. And I thought the 140 was easy!

 

 I bought the remains of a wrecked Avid (A model, SN# 55) years ago while working on my license. I was going to rebuild it but never made much progress on it. It came with the Cuyuna engine, which I sold. I acquired a 532 on the advice of John Knapp. I think if I was going to get it flying I'd look for a 503. I like the idea of a bare bones aircraft with a low, low empty weight. I'm not sure if it will fly again, honestly speaking. 

 

 Most of my flying is out to the family cabin in the Susitna Valley. I don't have floats yet but it is on the horizon. I've taken a few trips to different parts of the state, and just to buzz around a bit. I don't fly as much as I would like, but I think this summer is looking pretty good to get some more flying in.

 

-Nate

 

 

I would be in trouble if I ever physically went to a Grainger!

I have their free catalog with lots of index cards marking my "wants"!

ED

I would be in trouble if I ever physically went to a Grainger!