Tree top pilot

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Everything posted by Tree top pilot

  1. Tree top pilot added a post in a topic Handling the 9460 Hysol....   

    I did use the materials that came with the kit....I have not opened the new, good stuff from my supplier here locally. It has a date of 6/11 of manufacture. I think the material I got with the kit is old or out of date and that is what I had experimented with. Seems like I need to check everything ! I am very happy to have experienced help on hand...thanks again. It did set up nice after an overnight stay. From what you tell me....I had better plan on assembling 2 or 3 ribs at a time. I am somewhat slow and cautious...investigating that all is right as it goes with anything construction related like this. I will try and up a wing soon. I think I have read enough of the different manuals and looked over every build pic I could find. This forum has been a great asset to me.....maybe one day I will be able to shake a few hands of the great guys on here. As far as keeping the glue cold....I will just leave the heat way down when I build...maybe that will give me a bit of extra time to set things right. Picked up a bottle of acetone to clean the spar tube with at the bond site. The PPG533 seems a bit harsh for the task. I do have other solvent based degreasers that will evaporate quickly....but unsure if they are safe to use here. Paint related materials {R/M - Diamont products}.
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  2. Tree top pilot added a topic in Avidfoxflyers General Hangar   

    Handling the 9460 Hysol....
    Now that I have gotten the spar tube issues sorted, it is time to assemble something. I have spent over 1K in parts and fuel and too many hours to get to this point. Now I did experiment with some 9460 today at work, purchased a new 5 ld parcel so I have plenty to have on hand. I applied the material to a mock rib and tube joint and reworked the fillet as follows with very good looking results....glue leveled out and was smooth. Handles easily and here are my test results.

    Mix at 11:00
    Applied product after placing in plastic bag at 11:15
    Made fillets after 12:00 > Self leveled after 10 minutes
    Made more fillets after 1:00 > Self leveled after 10 minutes
    Made more fillets after 1:30 > Self leveled after 10 minutes
    All tests were with initial batch as mixed 50/50

    Now when does the bonding limit occur? I would assume one could get all the ribs and the drag struts in place by on hour of time with no worries. Just trying to get myself adjusted to this product. I had to apply heat to a couple of test pieces to see if accelerated cure would take place....it did. Heated adhesive to 125 deg F and it had what I would describe as a "full cure" in 2 hours. Seems to be a very strong bonding agent from my observation. Just nervous about getting everything right....the first time ! Hope I am not with this.

    BTW what did you abrade the spar tube with for bonding as far as grit # ?
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  3. Tree top pilot added a post in a topic Question for the Ridge Runner bulders   

    My tank has no twist....the washout is .500" as per manual. Keep in mind the spar legth is 144". The bottom of the tank conforms to rib profile...no sump. I did not get a cap or anything else for the tank...I do have the support tubes....375" x .035". They are to be installed onto the rib capstrips for support.
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  4. Tree top pilot added a post in a topic Spar tube conditioning   

    Yes these are the new spar tubes....few nicks here and there. Nothing that has not sanded out...or most of it by hand. Just worried about stress risers. No welding going on these spars.
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  5. Tree top pilot added a topic in Avidfoxflyers General Hangar   

    Spar tube conditioning
    Just how far do the spar tubes need to be cleared/sanded void of scratches? I have found myself going to try and remove any spot of a depression no matter how small. Even the tiny nicks I am going after. Am I sick or just too anal? I would like to know how far others have went....these tubes have a few scratches here and there from being loaded/unloaded at the supplier. Only one small indentation around .028" deep in a small bean size area. Does this tube need replacing? It is about 4' from one end. Sorry for the continued questions.....I have no other support at this time. Thanks....Mike
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  6. Tree top pilot added a post in a topic Correct grit to sand spars for rib bonding   

    Thanks for the tape tip! Nice looking build. I am ribstitching and not leaving the capstrips unsealed. It may be overkill for me to do that....but I would feel better if I did. Planning of sealing the ribs with West system 105 epoxy...2 coats sprayed on or applied by sponge. It looks like your drag struts are .500" diameter. Mine are the same with .035" wall. I did make 2 yeterday that are .625" diameter and .035" wall for the first unit in each bay. Not sure I will use them as the clearance hole in the rib will have to be made larger and get close to less than .200" rib truss structure in that area.
    Picked up the emory cloth in town this morning....may have travel to Wallyworld {Wallmart} and pick up a few more cans of bungees. Very nervous about the 40 minute time allotment to get all the ribs dialed in...guess a bit of time in preparing and planning eliminates errors and shortcomings. I may try and build a wing Sunday....if everything else falls into place. The ribs, spars,and a very fresh {packaged in 8/11} 5 ld. Hysol kit at hand. Ordered from R.S Hughes Co. and were extremely friendly and willing to share knowledge about the adhesive being fresh. They stated that most of their aviation customers wanted the adhesive no more than 8 months old. Top notch service from them.....total shipped to me was $118 in 2 days ! Thanks for all the help......specially for me being somewhat of an outsider to the aircraft group. You guys are what makes this place great.
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  7. Tree top pilot added a post in a topic Correct grit to sand spars for rib bonding   

    So I guess this is a danged if you do- danged if you don't thing. Knowing these things indeed makes one wonder the service life of the spars. I will scuff the area to be bonded with emory cloth since the sand paper I have is Norton brand and unsure of the actual abrasive material. I also have red scotchbrite....using the scotchbrite would seem to not provide much bite into the aluminum. Will get hold of some fine emory cloth and investigate it.....One thing I noted from reading about the Belite UL is that they apply a strap around the spar and rivet it to the top and bottom of the rib while into the bonding process. Seems there many ways to perform the task and all seem to be safe and work well.....the service life is the thing that would be nice to know.....guess time will tell all.
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  8. Tree top pilot added a post in a topic Drag/Anti drag struts   

    I just want to thank all you guys for helping me out....I am taking notes and making memories.... One more for ya....the pop rivets as supplied, the stainless ones, are they going to hold up to the loads on them? Most of the riveting I have done that involved shear stresses were Cherrymax rivets and the standard bucking block and airhammer type rivets. Just wondering if I need to get a small parcel of Cherrymax for the bulk of the wing structure. Your thoughts here?
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  9. Tree top pilot added a topic in Avidfoxflyers General Hangar   

    Drag/Anti drag struts
    Just wondering if any have founds small cracks...not all the way through, but more like the surface of the rounded edge of where the tube has been compressed flat . The manuals states......

    STEP 1
    Re-inspect all the drag tubes and tip braces . There should be no indication of cracking at any of the bend areas perpendicular to the axis of the tube.

    No mention of cracks on the edge of the crimped area on the sides...see very crude drawing.
    If it is not a problem....onward I go. This has been found on 3 of the drag tubes....the others are OK. Maybe the drag loads on the wing are not as severe as I am thinking. After all these wings are flying with Jabirus on a few of them. I think the covering helps to also bias against the drag of the wing and help to maintain strength.
    Sorry for the strange questions....back to prepping ribs.....

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  10. Tree top pilot added a topic in Avidfoxflyers General Hangar   

    Stace in a very bad accident
    From a friend on another forum....

    Some news....not good.

    I just found out that on Dec 14, Stace Schrader and his wife had a serious vehicle accident. It was reported to me that while towing a trailer used to deliver plane kits, he blacked out, went over the side of the roadway at a bridge and dropped 40 ft straight down. One side of his ribs are broken (at least) and his wife's back is broken, among other very serious issues.
    Obviously, this will be a life altering time of hardship and recovery, more important than any plane kit or new build. Please join me in prayers for their recovery.

    After Stace left my place .........

    A little of what has been transpiring since we last chatted. On 14 December Stace and his wife, Dorenna, delivered my kit to me. After we unloaded the parcel, we all went inside to take care of some paperwork. I also had agreed to pay for the delivery as he delivered 2 kits on the east coast. After a while it was getting late in the evening and I had to work the next day as well. They left for the Biltmore Estates in Asheville before heading back home , I was told.
    The next few days as I unpacked and inspected all the items, I had welds that were unfinished and the wing spars were unusable. They are replaced. I have finished welding the fusalage and made a couple mods. Now being almost ready to give up on contact with him at all....I just paid for the parts and pushed ahead thinking that this is just how it was going to be. I had called and e-mailed on a daily basis right up to the 25th of December, we celebrated the birth of Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
    Low and behold, after coming to grips that I am liable for any additional costs that may be incurred to finish the plane, I get a message on my phone 29 December. It was Stace. He said that they had been in a horrible accident about 1.5 hours after leaving my house !!!! Yikes !!!! His wife is still in ICU here in NC. They have lived at the hospital for all this time! I had no clue....now I feel REALLY BAD for trying to get hold of him all the time just to see how we can work this out with the kit. I have tried a couple of times to call the room.....but no answer. Just wanted to see if I could help out in any way since I was close to them....their home being some 2300 miles away. Any way just wanted to let you know what was transpiring on my end here. Stace said he was getting better and his wife was " Over the hill" on the way to a good recovery. That is all I know at this point. I will keep you informed as I get news.
    God bless......keep us all in your prayers......Mike

    They are still in NC (where the accident happened) and have been living at the hospital since the accident Dec 14. Stace is presently looking for some kind of goodwill, mercy flight for his wife to get back to Nampa to continue her recovery at home.


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  11. Tree top pilot added a post in a topic Correct grit to sand spars for rib bonding   

    I am OK with rough stuff on the ribs..thanks !...but to scuff...etch... prepare the spar area for bonding the rib is what I am asking. How rough can you get with sanding the spar to accept a good glue bond and not ruin it?
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  12. Tree top pilot added a topic in Avidfoxflyers General Hangar   

    Correct grit to sand spars for rib bonding
    I have read in the Highlander manual that it is correct to use 100 grit emory cloth for this. My RR manual states no rougher than 320 grit. Now what has the Avid/Kitfox guys done? I am almost ready to build the wings and would like to know what others have done from their manuals. Just trying to figure out what the scratch limit is on these....before the spars are not safe. Seems like 320 would not offer too much bite for the epoxy....but unsure here....
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  13. Tree top pilot added a topic in Avidfoxflyers General Hangar   

    Epoxy structures adhesive
    As per title....I do not have this adhesive to glue the ribs to the spars. Where can I get this and what is it called
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  14. Tree top pilot added a post in a topic Main Spar tube thickness?   

    Main spar tubes !!!! And a few other goodies picked up today......4130 sheet stock, kevlar fiber, carbon. Now I can start to build something. The guys at the supply house let me pick through the pile of tubing to get exactly what I wanted.....concentric and not gouged or scratched. Primo tubes for spars. Also picked up a 48" X 96" sheet of 5052 H32 aluminum to make trailing edge with.....the plywood as shipped for the task weighed better than 12 lds. !!! This thing is going on a diet. Now just need to figure out what to make the aileron/flap leading edges of. Steaming the acft. ply I have didn't work out so well....not good enough to use. May have to buy the fiberglass if someone would sell it to me.

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  15. Tree top pilot added a post in a topic Main Spar tube thickness?   

    Here is a pic of my ribs and the flap/aileron rib. Total estimated cord length is 46". There is no rib portion to encapsulate the spar tube at the rear location either. I did not get the fiberglass leading edge material for the flaps or the ailerons...will probably use 1/16" acft ply for that chore....unless I come up with something lighter. I figure I can steam it ,bend over a form and leave it for a few weeks until it takes a set. There are a lot of things I just don't get...OK the wing design is long proven strong and safe....but what if you made aluminum ribs...and faired the wing together using 2024 aluminum sheet for leading edge? Get a bit closer to a production type, lighter structure? I may invest some time in making a set of dies for doing the ribs...if there may be an intrest in this route of construction. This leads me to want to build a fuse jig...if only my job duties did not get in the way of my dreams/hobbies.
    On a side note...man I am really diggin those attatch fittings....got to make a set soon. Trying hard not to covet. I really appreciate craftsmanship in any part...not many do. I take pride in my work and try to convey that into whatever I make/build. A friend of mine once said....you are only as good as the last job you turned out.... You think that if I use a sponge to apply West epoxy to the ribs to seal them up it would be too heavy? I relish the idea of sealing them up and adding a strength factor. Your thoughts? The stringers are .500" T-6 ally. 2 false between each rib.

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  16. Tree top pilot added a post in a topic Main Spar tube thickness?   

    Mnat thanks ! Will fab up a set soon...good tip on the 1/4 round addition. A length of , say , 24" spread the load well? Nice looking attatch fittings ...will be making a set of these soon. Interesting rib lightening holes in the links....I will post a pick of the rib I have...has more of a trusswork cutout than oval holes though. I would tend to think that the oval hole would stand more compressive loads. Still not too keen on riveting a flattened tube to the spar for a drag tube....still going to make some brackets like the Kitfox uses for this...using the tube as supplied {.500" O.D.}.
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  17. Tree top pilot added a topic in Avidfoxflyers General Hangar   

    Main Spar tube thickness?
    OK I have gotten hold of a local supplier {less than a three hour truck run} that has the 2.5" dia. 6061 T-6 tube. They have .065" and .125" wall thickness. They also have titanium, aluminum, delrin sheet, and 4130 sheet stock in 18" X 36" X .050" for me to fabricate a new set of lift strut attatch fittings. I wish they had .089" as I seem to have read somewhere that this was optimal tube size on most gross around 1000 lds. for this type of Kitfox/Avid wing design. My kit calls for .065" and no stiffener internally , but the gross on this aircraft will be under 575 lds. Just wondering what spar tube thicknesses are deployed and if they have internal brace parts. BTW I did find a media mail parcel today on the front porch....build manual. Interesting read tonight. Still no answer on the tele or e-mails....guess I am on my own from here out. The shop is near the S.C./ N.C. border if anyone in the area needs materials. Well worth a drive accross the state for less than 1/4 of the shipping fees. Website.....http://www.stockcarsteel.com/
    And they have prices on line !
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  18. Tree top pilot added a post in a topic Main spar issue????   

    This is one of the cars we build. Will get close up pix of welds. All 4130 tig welds. Car will run in the low 4 second area in the 1/8th mile.

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  19. Tree top pilot added a post in a topic Main spar issue????   

    I have left e-mails and phone messages....no reply as of yet...but it has been 16 December since the first call to them. I think I may just have to make my own lift strut attatch fittings. After calculating the Young's modulous of materials and the shear tension on the rivets and spar juction I think a slight redesign is warranted. The welds on the fuse look good enough to trust and my I/A is coming to look it over. Most of the local guys say it will be fine..the fusalage. But as for the wing spars...not so much of a "Gee whiz Wally...wait 'til mom see's this". OK I have revealed my age. I just think that it is possible that the unknowing could be at a serious risk with issues like this. I am sure there is an explanation. I have waited for four months to get this and here I am with it. If you can't make contact with someone to work out a resolve , it seems I have to pick it up and make it right. The welds you posted above look good to me....and the parts are nice and cleanly cut-dressed-deburred. I have already started to think that I could have built this if I had the measurements or and old fuse to go from. I have built jigs for a lot of things....no big twig there. Just wish that things would have turned out better. The spars are .065" wall with no stiffening devices. You guys think I should fab up something Kitfox style and install it?
    So as it stands...it is mine to work with. Hopefully they will own up to these issues soon....in the meantime I have to move on or it will never get started on the route of completion. And we just had about $6K of tube stock come from Charlie....guess I will be calling him up again.
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  20. Tree top pilot added a post in a topic Main spar issue????   

    Are all the spar attatch fittings this rough or am I being picky? I do a lot of work involved with racing fabrication and this does not meet our shop standards, nor aviation standards. I think I am being a little too picky, but it is my heiny in this plane. I will debur and clean up the edges if I don't just remake them. This thing will be almost type certified when I am finished! LOL ! Functional parts can have cosmetic benefits to boot.

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  21. Tree top pilot added a post in a topic Main spar issue????   

    OK I have left an email for Stace to contact me as soon as they return. I have finished welding the fusalage today and grinding a few places that would make an unhappy place for fabric to pull over. There were a couple of welds that were unfinished and I buttoned them up with my Miller maxstar 150. The one longeron was only welded half the way round. I am also thinking of putting another bolt tube for the tailwheel spring. Considering a header tank as well. I think I can make an aluminum 5 gallon unit that will fit under the cluster joint up front similar to the Cub's tank residence. As for the spars...they are sanded good and rough...like 120 grit, possibly emory cloth pulled around and worked over. I have no trust in them for the intended purpose. I can see it is going to take me a while to get all this straightened out. Been around too many Cubs and Champs to not make it safe and airworthy. I too am taken by surprise by all this. I just have to make everything right now as the moneys have changed hands. Lots of work before I get to build anything. Looks like the spar tubes are near $9.00/Ft prior to shipping. Should have had a nice , smooth mill finish. I don't have a build manual,fabric, and a few other bits that I am told are being shipped to me. Not pissed over this, but disappointed in what I was given....10 hours into the project so far....nothing built as of yet.
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  22. Tree top pilot added a post in a topic my mod C   

    Could you tell a bit more about how your drag/anti-drag tubes are secured to the main spar? Flatened and riveted or a later style stub tube riveted to the main spar? Thanks in advance.
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  23. Tree top pilot added a topic in Avidfoxflyers General Hangar   

    Main spar issue????
    The spars that were delivered have been sanded in random directions all over from one end to the other on all 4 pcs. One has a welded section running linear to the tube center line...and a couple of small puddles on a couple of the other tubes. I don't think this is airworthy by any means and don't plan to use them. A good friend came to see the project and stated it was probably corrosion on the surface....had no explanation for the weldments. He said it should have a mill finish like all new tubing will have. Your thoughts/Opinions on this? Safety is of utmost importance here in my eyes.

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  24. Tree top pilot added a topic in Avidfoxflyers General Hangar   

    It is here......
    Well.....after chewing off any remnants of finger nails that I had...it is here. Delivered by the man himself last night. I am still in a bit of an awe stupor. The wife is also happy now that she does'nt have to get "the business" from me anymore about it. There are a few issues though....see next post please.



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  25. Tree top pilot added a post in a topic How to wait......   

    Guess who just called me. Making the last of 2 cowlings and will come out of the mold tuesday I was told. A waiting I will be...should have for the weekend if no tother issues show up I was told. Fingers and toes crossed....hoping to get started soon........
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