Armilite

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About Armilite

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  1. Armilite added a post in a topic R&D Tuned Pipe   

    I Think, 1st Column = RPM, 2nd & 3rd = Fuel Flow/HR, 4th & 5th = B.S.F.C., 6th = CORR HP, 7th = Torque. I'm guessing 2&3 and 4&5 Metric/American.
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  2. Armilite added a post in a topic R&D Tuned Pipe   

    Some Skidoo Dyno Sheets.
    http://www.m-performance.com/Sidor/dyno_sd.htm
    Here is an example of a Bad Tuned Pipe on a Skidoo 500.

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  3. Armilite added a post in a topic R&D Tuned Pipe   

    R&D's doors were closed many years ago in the late 90's. They made Tuned Pipes for Sleds, also Rotax's used on Airplanes, and even Jet Skies I think. Yes, they made (3) different 582UL Tuned Pipes, and No, not every Tuned Pipe is great. Many People have Opinions on Tuned Pipes, but have never really flown behind one. Some Actual Dyno Numbers of the Stock 582UL, and with their (3) different Tuned Pipes. Dump those Actual Dyno Numbers into an Excel Spreadsheet and then Graph the Power Band.
    On a Perfect, Good Tuned Pipe, you should be able to draw a Straight Line from Idle(2000rpm) to the Max Rpm it's Design for. It should be making making HP till a little past it's Designed Max Rpm, usualy;y 150-200rpm. You want a Wide Power Band with No Dead Spots, Blips in the Power Band.
    Stock 582UL with Rotax Exhaust. Max 64.7hp@6250rpm!
    http://www.rotaxservices.com/dyno.html#2
    5 82UL with R&D 582 - 1 Tuned Pipe. Max 80.7hp@6500rpm!
    http://www.rotaxservices.com/dyno.html#3
    582UL with R&D 582 - 2 Tuned Pipe. Max 77.5hp@6500rpm!
    http://www.rotaxservices.com/dyno.html#4
    582UL with R&D - 3 Tuned Pipe. Max 75.6hp@6000rpm!
    http://www.rotaxservices.com/dyno.html#5
    Here is a 2004 380HO(A 377 with 11.2cr vs Std. 377 9.6cr) Twin with a fairly decent after market Tuned Pipe. No Large Blips or Dead Spots in the Power Band. Stock 380HO was rated 48hp@7000rpm. Notice it still made 52hp@6500rpm with the after Market Tuned Pipe. Stock 377UL was 35hp@6500rpm! Most Rotax's and other 2 Strokes used on Planes are used in the 4000rpm to 6500rpm Range.
    Stock 582UL with Rotax Exhaust, Dyno Numbers! You can See that even the Stock Engines Power Band isn't Perfect. Mufflers can be to Restrictive, Carbs to Small, Cylinder & Case Porting casuing Turbulence. Without having the Case & Cylinders Ported for better Airflow, a Tuned Pipe can Multiply the already Stock Bad Power Band. Case & Cylinder Porting can add 10-15% more over all Power. So Stock 64.7hp +10% = 6.47hp + 64.7hp = 71.2hp.
    RPM  HP3500 21.0hp 4000 27.3hp  +6.3hp  +500rpm4500 31.9hp  +4.6hp  +500rpm4750 38.6hp  +6.7hp  +250rpm5000 44.3hp  +5.7hp  +250rpm5250 49.4hp  +5.1hp  +250rpm5500 54.8hp  +5.4hp  +250rpm5750 58.0hp  +8.6hp  +250rpm6000 62.4hp  +4.4hp  +250rpm  <--- Staring to make less HP! Probably to Restrictive Exhaust, and Porting, maybe even Carbs!6250 64.7hp  +2.0hp  +250rpm6500 63.9hp   -0.8hp   +250rpm  <---- Loosing Power even with rpm Increase!6750 60.6hp   -4.1hp  +250rpm7000 57.2hp   -7.5hp  +250rpm 
     
     

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  4. Armilite added a post in a topic Rotax 583   

    Did you ever Ask yourself, How these different Companies have different TBO's and most using same Parts, same 50:1 Oil, same 6500rpm:
    Rotax 300hr TBO.
    Rotax Rick 670 450hr TBO.
    Simonini 600hr TBO.
    Hirth 1000hr TBO.
    Compact Radial ???hr TBO.
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  5. Armilite added a post in a topic Rotax 583   

    I know this is an Old Post, but I want to add my 2 Cents! Almost ALL Rotax UL Engines, except the 185UL are based off the Skidoo/Rotax Core Engines! The Rotax 185 was used on Water Pumps, Weed Wackers, Generators, I have seen reference to them being used in Europe on some Sleds, But I have never seen any photo's of one used that way. Water Pumps was Rotax's Oringal Core Business. Skidoo/Rotax Engines started in 1963 and went from Bosch Points to Nippon Denso CDI around 1983. All Rotax 277UL Free Airs rated 26hp@6250rpm were Points Engines till discontinued around 2000, but could be converted to Nippon Denso CDI. Most of these Points to CDI Conversions were done by Air Screw and few other Big Ultralight Dealers. There was also a 277UL Fan engine used on SCAT HOVERCRAFT that was all Nippon Denso CDI and was rated 28hp@6400rpm. Rotax wanted to make their UL Engines with Dual Plug Ignition and Nippon Denso didn't want anything to do by then with Airplanes, so around 1993 about 10 years later Skidoo/Rotax and Rotax UL Engines were Switched over to Ducati CDI Dual Ignition for their UL Line of engines and the Skidoo/Rotax line of engines to Ducati Single Ignition. Around late 1992, 1993 is also when the Provision 8 Cases came out. The 670(Big Dog) actually came out in late 1992 in limited numbers and had a Crank Issue, it was corrected for the 1993 Model, and is also what Helped kill off the 617/618UL. The 583 was and still is a very Popular Engine as is the 670. 1993 was a very Important year for SKIDOO/BRP/Rotax, that is also WHY the 670 the last Provision 8 Engine made was never made into a UL Engine account that is the first year Rotax offered their New Golden Boy the 912 (80hp) which Cost about $4-5000 more than their 618UL(74.3hp@6750rpm). People would not have spent that much for just 5-6hp and more Weight than the 618UL made, and the New 670(Big Dog) Blew Both the 618UL and the 912UL out of the water, since it could make 95hp@6500rpm!
    Rotax UL Motors don't really used a Tuned Pipe, they use more of a Tuned Muffler that is Tuned for the Sound Signature! Most UL Engines are rated at 6500rpm, the 618UL was rated at 6750rpm, the 185UL was rated at 5000rpm. The same Motors used in Sleds, Fanners are usually rated at 7000-7500rpm, Liquid Cooled(LC) at 7750-8000rpm.
    A Skidoo 277F = Rotax 277UL. There is a difference in the 277 Case's around the PTO if you want to run a Gear Drive and around the Stator area if you want to make it into a Free Air. Some 277 Case's are drilled for both Bosch Points or Nippon CDI. 277UL with an R&D tuned Pipe. http://www.rotaxservices.com/dyno.html#7  
    A Skidoo 377F/380F = Rotax 377UL. All 377UL's were Single Ignition.
    A Skidoo 440F = Rotax 447UL. 447UL with an R&D Tuned Pipe. http://www.rotaxservices.com/dyno.html#15  
    A Skidoo 500F/503F = Rotax 503UL. A 503UL with an R&D Tuned Pipe. http://www.rotaxservices.com/dyno.html#7  
    A Skidoo 463LC & 470LC = 462UL. Wasn't a very popular Sled or UL Engine for either side. 463cc, HP vs Weight.
    A Skidoo 521LC = 532UL. The 521/532UL was also dropped around 1991/92 that is why most are Pro4.
    A Skidoo 580/582, and 583(RAVE) = 582UL. A 582UL with an R&D Tuned Pipe. http://www.rotaxservices.com/dyno.html#3  So your talking 97hp@7750rpm with a Tuned Pipe for the Sled Engine vs 65hp@6500rpm with a Muffler for Airplane use.
    A Skidoo/Rotax 583 with an R&D 618 Tuned Pipe. http://www.rotaxservices.com/dyno.html#583  
    A Skidoo/Rotax 617LC = Rotax 618UL. 618UL with an R&D Tuned Pipe. http://www.rotaxservices.com/dyno.html#1 
    ======================================================================
    A Skidoo/Rotax 670 with an R&D 618 Tuned Pipe. http://www.rotaxservices.com/dyno.html#89
    There was only one Provision 8 Triple I believe 738/748
    Almost ALL Skidoo/Rotax's Liquid Cooled used 11.5cr, except the 380HO(11.2cr) & 670HO(12.5cr). I have seen Documentation of some 532UL's also used 12.5cr, but most were also 11.5cr. I have never found any reference to a 521HO. 380HO's 11.2cr Stock 48hp@7000rpm were only Sold in Alasaka and Euroupe! With a better Tuned Pipe Dynoed 57.26hp@7000rpm, it still made around 52hp at 6500rpm!
    Some General Rules for 2 Strokes. A +/- 1.0cr = 2hp, so a +/- 0.5cr = 1hp. At 6500rpm(Industry Standard today) and using 11.5cr with a Good Tuned Pipe it takes on Avg 7cc to make 1hp! Fresh 91 Octane is good for 11.8cr or Cranking 175psi. If you look at all the different Engines Companies today, most have dropped the CR to 9.5cr for most of their Engines used on Planes today, Hirth, Simonini, MKz, etc. Atmospheric Pressure is 14.7 at Sea Level. 14.7 x 11.8cr = 173.4psi, if your Engine was Built Perfect, but most Engines aren't. The Higher you go, or start out at, that 173.46psi Number will be Smaller, as your Max HP will drop the Higher you go or start out at. Avg PSI Drop is about 3% for every 1000ft. 9.6cr x 14.7 = 141.1psi. Fresh 87 Octane is Good for around 125-130psi. Pump Gas can lose 2 Points in Octane in as little as 2 weeks. Go Bad in 6 months. 100LL has a 5 Year Shelf Life.
    532UL 11.5cr 64hp@6500rpm 521cc/7cc = 74.2hp@6500rpm is possible!
    582UL 11.5cr 65hp@6500rpm 580cc/7cc = 82.8hp@6500rpm is possible!
    618UL 11.4cr 74.3hp@6750rpm 617cc/7cc = 88.1hp@6500rpm is possible!
    670 11.5cr 669cc/7cc = 95.5hp@6500rpm is possible! A Rotax Rick 670 Dynoed 93hp@6350rpm!
    =================================================================================
    So YES, a Skidoo 583 can make you a Nice Engine for an Airplane. With Fresh 91+ Octane Gas and a Good Oil you can turn them Higher rpm, but the Service Life will go down. Rotax Service Life has more to do with WHO is Maintaining and Flying them, than Rpm used. 11.5cr is on the Edge with 91 Octane for Detonation, so run 93 or 100LL. With Higher Rpms you also make more Friction Heat & Hp Heat that you have to deal with. Can it be done, Yes, if you Design and Build it right. It's better to keep rpms down to Max 6500rpm and use a Tuned Pipe, and Higher CR if below 11.5cr, or use more CC to make more HP. Look what Rotax Rick does to make his 670's have a 450hr TBO, use 40:1 Amsoil Interceptor Oil premixed, Ceramic Top Coated Pistons, use's 6350rpm. With the 582UL Exhaust Muffler a 583 will make around same 65hp@6500rpm. With a Good Tuned Pipe it will make more HP at same 6500rpm! The 583, 670 were discontinued after 1999 when Skidoo came out with their New 2000 Line of Engines. The 521 was dropped in 1993, as was the 617. The 503 was dropped in 2003 by the introduction of the 550F, hence we never got a 550UL either. The 277F, 380F, 440F weren't dropped till around 2008 by Skidoo. I believe the 277UL was dropped around late 90's. Some of these Skidoo/Rotax Engines, 250F, 377F, 440F, 503F, 550F are still being made in Russia under the Brand Name RMZ!
    http://russneg.ru/DVIGATELI-RMZ-pr-va-OAO-RM-i-dvigateli-LIFAN_100g.html 
    That RMZ-250 Single(Skidoo/Rotax) 51,500 rub = $739.52 usd, is 22hp@6500rpm with a Muffler. Around 32-34hp with a Good Tuned Pipe! (72mm x 61mm) 248.5cc/7cc = 35.5hp is possible. Use's a 34mm Carb vs a 36mm.
    IF, you notice, their RMZ-250F, RMZ-500F and RMZ-550F all have Provision 8 Case's, our 550F's Sold here US/Canada is not Pro8 on the Top Case Halve, but is on bottom Case! A fellow I talked to along time ago said he had his 2004 550F with 34mm Carbs and it Dynoed 70hp@7000rpm using 9.6cr! Newer 550F's Sold here in US/Canada now only have 30mm carbs and are rated 58hp@6800rpm. 550F(76mm x 61mm) 553.6cc/7cc = 78.6hp is possible. Hmmm, wouldn't sell many 582UL's with all that extra Weight & Cost for Cooling if we had a 550UL now would they. RMZ-550 Engine 89,000 rub = $1,364.62 usd, 93,000 rub = $1,425.89 usd, 96,000 rub = $1,472.00 usd in todays $$$. A 582UL Engine only today is around $5200 + Cooling.
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  6. Armilite added a post in a topic machining a prov 8 case   

    Go to http://www.aviagamma.ru/draw-e.html and schroll down to 447, 503, 582, and you will find the Provision 8 Spec's, Front View and Side View in DXF CAD or GIF photo. You can use the Free Simple 2D CAD from www.emachineshop.com to open DXF Files. it also let's you view a Part in 3D. DXF CAD files is also what most CNC Machines use. I drew this up in the Free emachineshop 2D CAD.



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  7. Armilite added a post in a topic Tired of pulling the string on my 582   

    GPL Stater with a Lithium Battery.
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  8. Armilite added a post in a topic My idle thoughts on 582 cooling system   

    If you Notice, Rotax sends the Water from Radiator to the Case 1st. It took the Auto Industry a 100+ Years to Reverse the Cooling to the Heads First, then to the Block. Also, it looks like a Single Pass Radiator. Racers make Chambers on the Ends of the Radiator, so the Water Pass's through (3) Times. Using the Ceramic Coatings on Piston Tops, Cylinder Exhaust Ports, Head Combustion Chambers, and Wye Pipe can lower your over all Temps by 20%. Use an Inline Thermostat.
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  9. Armilite added a post in a topic ROTAX 717 ???   

    it's a Seadoo Jet Ski/Boat Engine 717/720 (82mm x 68mm) 718.5cc. I have never seen anyone convert any of the older Seadoo Engines for Airplane use, 580/587, 650/657, 717/720, 787/800. But some parts do switch with Skidoo/Rotax. It could be done, but a lot of R&D Time & $$$ to convert one. If you left it Single ignition and could Hang it Upside Down you could use an Old Belt Drive. Seadoo's use a Threaded PTO. You would have to Block Off the Exhaust Cooling Holes and make a different WYE Pipe Flange.
    Rotax Rick's 670(669cc) is 93hp@6350rpm. 669cc/93 = 7.2cc to make 1hp. So 718cc/7.2cc = 99.7hp@6350rpm. With Tuned Pipes, different Size Carbs, HP can very greatly.
    670(78mm x 70mm) 669.2cc 11.5cr have been Big Bored to (82.5mm x 70mm) 748.6cc is the largest you can go on the 670. Stock Standard 670 was 115.7hp@7750rpm in a Sled. The 670HO 12.5cr was about 15-20hp more at same 7750rpm.

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  10. Armilite added a post in a topic Looking for a 582 Cylinder   

    Skidoo 580 & 582 Snowmobile Cylinders are the same as 582UL Cylinders. The 583 was the same Bore & Stroke only used RAVE Valves. Skidoo 521/532UL & 580/582 is the same Cylinder Casting just different Sleeves & Bores, so you can put a New 580/582 Sleeve in the 521 Cylinder Casting. You can Over Bore most Stock Sleeves 2mm if you can find a Piston. You need minimum 2mm Wall Thickness, so Measure your Cylinder Sleeve OD, then minus 4mm and that's the largest it can be Bored. At one time there was a Big Bore Option for 580/582/583 and the 617 to 79.4mm, but I have seen them available for years now. Wiesco makes Custom Pistons.
    Over Bore Options.
    .25mm = .010"
    .5mm = .020"
    .75mm = .030"
    1.00mm = .040"
    1.25mm = .050"
    1.5mm = .060"
    1.75mm = .070"
    2.00mm =.080"
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  11. Armilite added a post in a topic Hirth EFI unit on a Rotax 582?   

    Skidoo/Rotax actually made a 580 EFI in 1993 only. Then didn't use it again till they switched over to their New Engine Line after 2000. EFI Stands for Electronic Fuel Injection. There is No Manual Fuel Injection made for these 2 Strokes used on Planes that I know of, but one could be maybe made. I would look at the Old Crower Fuel Injection for Racing. What would be nice is to see what Size Throttle Bodies they used on this Hirth EFI! Almost All Rotax Engines used 36mm Bing 54 Carbs 277UL, 377UL, 447UL, 503UL, 532UL, 582UL, 618UL. There is a Company called Ecotrons, https://www.ecotrons.com/small_engine_fuel_injection_kit/400cc_to_800cc_engine_fuel_injection_kit/   who is making EFI kits for different Engines. READ all the INFO on their Site, then READ all the Info on Mega Squirts web site. You also have the MegaSquirt EFI System http://megasquirt.info/products/diy-kits/ms3/   which is Cheap and has DIY KIts, and Tuning Software is Free http://www.tunerstudio.com/index.php/tuner-studio that  allows you to use a Laptop. LOOK at the Photo's and READ the Info. There is Fuel Injector Calc https://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php   to figure what Size Injectors you need. Many different Engines come today with EFI, Sleds, ATV, Bikes, etc., that you might be able to use the Parts to make one for your Engine of Choice.
    Like here a EFI 45mm off a 650 Polaris. $40 off eBay. Break it up to make (3) Singles, or (1) Twin and (1) Single. A Seadoo 800 EFI Rotary Valve Intake. Adapter Plate for an SFS Throttle Body.





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  12. Armilite added a post in a topic 582 grey head   

    A Rebuilt, Zero Time motor is going to be probably 1/3 less than a Brand New Motor. New 582's are around $5200-$5400 on Avg. Does your Grey Head 582 have the Ceramic Water Pump Seal update? Runout/High Hour 582's usually cost around $1500-$2000 depending on condition. Gear Drives/Electric Start Setups are usually 50% of New. You will have to shop around for Rebuild Prices they very. I would recomend Rotax Rick in Flordia. If you want more HP, you can swap over your 582 Dual Ignition to a 670. You also had the upgrade of the Grey Head to the Blue Head, IF, you have had no problems in the Type of Flying you do with it, it will work fine. If you Rebuild it, make sure if it doesn't have the Ceramic Water Pump Seal to have that done. I would also use the Ceramic Top Coated Pistons with the Moly Coated Sidewalls. I would take it one Step further and also have the Head Combustion Chambers, Cylinder Exhaust Ports, Wye Pipe, all Ceramic Coated, you can Reduce your over All Temps by 20%. If you Ceramic Coat the Exhaust also it will last longer.




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  13. Armilite added a post in a topic Perfoming oil injection delete on Rotax 582?   

    The Questions you should be asking is What Fails on the Oil Injection. On 532 UL, 582UL, 618UL, 670's is the Gear Hub Hole which is D Shaped. So what can be done to make it better? On the other Type of Oil Injection, 277UL, 377UL, 447UL, 503UL, it's the Long Plastic Shaft that is Square on the end where it goes into the Crank Square Hole. So what can be done to make it better. Ask Rotax Rick who has built over a 1000 Rotax's now, how many 582's have Failed account of Rotax's Oil Injection. He doesn't use it on his 670's. I want to say 3 out of every 5, 582's. He uses 40:1 Amsoil Interceptor(also a few other Oils) Premixed in his 670's (93hp@6400rpm) which last I knew had a 450hr TBO! He also use's Ceramic Top Coated Pistons as does Rotax Joe on his 582's.
    There is many People running the Full Synthetics at 80:1 - 100:1, like Hirths Blue Max, Amsoil Saber. Rotax Joe says, he is seeing 700+hrs on his 582's he's Re-Built using a Ceramic Top Coated Piston with Moly Coated Sidewalls with Amsoil Saber Pre-Mixed at 100:1 with No De-Carbons.
    A Skidoo/Rotax 521/532UL, 580/582/583/582UL, 617/618UL, 670 all use the same Rotary Valve Intake. There are some New/NOS Billet Non Oil Injection Rotary Valve Intakes out there if you look. The Crank Shop was selling them still. Theere is some Union Bay Racing on eBay right now. The 2nd one I have only seen photo's of it. I think it's Western Power Sports. That Bolt Pattern is real close the WEBER CARB DCOE and WEBER EFI DCOE. Top Holes Match up, Bottom (2) are off.
    Maybe make some Oil Injection fixes.






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