banjoplayer

I'm still "Not Kidding"
I haven't posted in awhile but I've been busy nonetheless.
I broke my foot slamming a snowmobile into a tree on the second last weekend we had snow .... so there was that.
HOEWEVER,
I've done a bunch of stuff.
1) The controls are all in and work flawlessly with AN hardware. Thanks to Doug Holly's exellent photographic shots of his mixer and control column setup.
2) Windshield is in.
3) Side windows are in.
4) Cargo bay and all floorboards and plywood under seat pans are in.
Two MAJOR things,
1) I'm ready to cover this thing.
MD-RA (Minister Delegate - Recreational Aviation) the guys that give me the Pre Cover Inspection have been contacted, paid and they've confirmed payment and responded with pretty good news..
During this "Pandemic" thing, they are still inspecting aircraft, at their discretion. It is completely up to the inspector whether they feel "comfortable" with the location.
I have a half acre I can spread it out over now that the weather is nice.I've had the name and contact information of the guy coming to inspect sent to me today and should here from him next week.
2) I've decided on the power plant for the Fat Avid and for now it's gonna be the Subaru.
It just "Fits" everything I have without modifying anything.
The Lycoming is not out of the running though as the Fat Avid fuselage came with a brand new cowl that covers the Sube nicely, but it also came with the cowl that came off the original MK-IV. The plan is to make up a mock firewall and fir the Lycoming to it and try to modify the MK-IV cowl to work while flying the Sube.
Call out to Jim Chuck (1avidflyer).
Back in 2014 when I was first looking at a powerplant you turned me on to an EA-81 in New Orleans .... that I bought.
I pulled it apart last week and am absolutely delighted at what I found inside.
Engine: Standard, Standard, Standard - Main bearings, Rod bearings and Pistons. Pistons are factory Subaru Pistons and almost new. This engine may have a couple or 300 hours on it tops.
It's got "Intake Valves Inboard" heads instead of the intake valves being at the extremities of the head which is apparently pretty desirable for less heat transfer to the air fuel mix dumping directly down into the intake ports instead across the top of the hot exhaust first.
The heads have been planed .030" already and cleaned up perfectly flat with .004 off one head and .006 off the other.
Now for a couple of questions:
I have the engine mount that came with the Subaru I bought from New Orleans. The Firewall side of this mount fits a Karatoo aircraft, the engine side does fit the engine and I assume flew like this. (See attached picture of mount) I need to mount the Sube to the firewall of the Avid and my plan is to set up the bare block and redrive at the correct position relative to the prop drive (just because I don't need to slug the weight of heads, cam, crank and pistons etc to build the mount).
At this point I plan to copy what fits the engine and fab what I need to bolt to the Avid, staying as close to the Karatoo's design as possible .... Unless there is a better way. 
I have contacted the new Airdale a couple of times asking if there is any engineering I could purchase for the Fat Avid to Sube mating but have received no reply.
Is there any factory info out there or am I on the best path trying to copy the Karatoo design?
Also, I have been reading with interest about the engines angle of thrust and get the impression that very little angle down is needed. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated before I commit the engines angle with an engine mount.
Thx
Jim Rainbow

 Good News .... Finally
The Control Column and linkage is all in and not binding at all.
I had to change several things
1) I had to run the "Stick to Stick" tie rod on the rear side of the Stick Stubs that extend into the Control Column. This puts the Mixer linkage exiting the Column forward of the Stick Stubs. I see this as the biggest variance to the design.
I don't understand why it works exacly opposite to how it's drawn .... but it works.
2) NONE of the bolts inside the Control Column are Hex Head anymore and have been changed to lower profile AN Slot Head Clevis Bolts.
3) The length of the stud that comes from the Male Heim Joint in the Male / Female Hiem Joints that connect the Bell Crank needed to be adjusted to a specific length, too long and it started to drag too short, the same.
Thanks Randy for your input on putting it together and to you and Chris Bolkan for your versions of the Flaperon Mixer Control methods and pictures.
I love the automation of the Linear Actuator but the simpicity of the. ratcheting system.
These are the build conundrums I like
More to come.
It takes a village to build an airplane.
Thx
   

Tonight's Facebook Post
Tomorrows Another Day.
 
 
Apparently,
According to the manual, When all this stuff's assembled,And all the bolts are tight,And all the rods connected,And everything's done right,The steering sticks, the manual saysShould move,Fore - Aft,  / Left - RightBut because the sticks both jam and bindAnd because I've all but run out of rhyme.And because on this crap,I've spent too much time.I'm gonna say .... "F#$k it"(for tonight). 

Hey Guys 
Thanks for the help so far.
It's getting better results (this mixer / control column binding thing) but I'm working on it again today.
When it STILL doesn't work tonight, I'll post detailed pictures and dimensions of what's sticking and where.
I'm trying to be fairly fussy on this stuff as the next step is to schedule the MD-RA  (Ministry Delegate - Recreational Aircraft) to perform the Pre-Cover Inspection and don't want to give them too much to look at that don't adhere to the assembly drawings.
So far the drawings call for drilled bolts with nyloc nuts in a couple places, some bolts are just too long, stuff like that, that I'll need to explain to the inspector with explanations why I had to change it.
I hope. 
Any-hoo
Thx so far and 
Stay tuned .....
 

Thanks guys for the help.
AKFlyer hit the mark with the bracket being out 90 degrees due to Bolt R and also got me to think about what else I looked at and didn't see.
The other thing that solved the binding was inserting the pivot bolt for the bottom stick and 2 clevis' and washers (another R bolt) in from the front of the Control Column like the drawing shows and not from the easier back side like I did.
More of the jamming, binding, sticking issues disappeared when I started thinking about actual "control throws" and when I started thinking about the flap travel realistically and its start and finish points all that jamming wasn't within any usable range of motion.
Where that leaves me is sorting out the Flap Control Lever and Linkage.
I have no idea what "Useful Travel" is for this, either linearly back and forth at the rod ends driven by the arm from the shaft or the degrees of rotation at the handle.
I've attached a couple of pictures of the installed parts I have that came with the kit but think I am missing some components for the factory friction disk system without really knowing what it looks like or how it works.
 
Chris Bolkan
If you could send me a picture of your Flap Adjust system that would be great.
I like the idea of a Linear Actuator for its adjustabilty.
Is that what you are using?
If so, where'd you get such a creature?
 

Progress and inevitable questions:
I've got the Control Column Extended, Riv-Nuts and Cockpit and Cargo Bay Floor Panels installed, Rudder Pedals and Control Column Installed  and (almost) all this stuff bolted down with "Inspectable Methods and Hardware"
I am now facing the thing I've been dreading, that being the Aileron / Flap Mixer hardware.
There is very little to go on from the MK-IV manual
There was a "Bag Full" of specialty parts that came with the plane.
Would anyone have or could direct me to ....
1) A photograph of what you have working for your Mixer Assembly in your Avid Plus or Fat Avid?
2) Any recommendations for the Flap Deploy Lever that could improve what looks like a terrible system. (I understand the lever and the mixer operation but don't get how the flap position gets held in place)
I've included several photos of how I've interpreted the assembly from the drawing I have for the MK IV.
None of the Mixer components are held together with the correct hardware but is sufficient for testing.
I seem to have interference issues with the Rod Ends extending out the LHS of the Control Column.
The Pivot Bolt that secures the two Rod Ends at the bottom of the LHS Stick (one points left to Bell Crank one points right to Tie Rod to RHS Stick) seem to drag inside the column when moved full lock to lock without Bell Crank connected.
I used the recommended AN3-10A bolt with the two AN960-10 washers and the AN364-1032A nut and was wondering if this makes sense.
I have all the hardware on the fastener (AN3-10A) that holds those two Rod Ends to the Stick but if I assemble the bolt with the washers on the bolt and nut it spaces the nut out too far and the nut hits the tube.
To use the recommended hardware I have to place both washers under the bolt head (to maintain correct bolt length) and no washer on the nut side.
This allows the Rod Ends to move back and forth without hitting the entry into the Control Column without the Bell Crank attached, however, as soon as the Bell Crank is attached and the stick is moved full lock side to side and pulled back for the elevator lock to lock it the rod and assembly just jams and drags and sticks etc.
I'm sure this isn't normal.
What am I missing here?
Thx for any help ....
 
 

Thanks Doug
You're my favourite source for Avid model info.
I believe you have a Plus or is it a Fat Avid like mine?
JR

Hey Chris Bolkan
It's not a Fat Avid yet but will be.
Its a new (and yet very old) Avid Plus or Fat Avid fuselage and rudder and Avid Mk IV Heavy Hauler everything else. Wings,            H Stab, Elevator, Pedals, Sticks and Control Column. 
I bought it in 2014 and due to my love for flying my Challenger coupled with an unavoidable 4 year break, am starting it now.
Hey TJay
Re Fuselage Wing Mount Tubes 
Carry Through Tubes?
The front Wing Mount Tube has a wall thickness of .054 inches.
The rear Wing Mount has to be modified on the Fat Avid Fuselage upgrade due to the centres of the front and rear tubes being jigged and  welded too close together by about 1/4 inch at the factory.
This mod was done before I purchased the plane.
The single wall thickness of the original tube is .035 inches.
It has a tube pushed in and welded so that it allows for repositioning of the rear pivot tube for the wing.
Together, the two tubes have a thickness of .109 inches.
Here are pictures of the front (non modified) and rear (modified) tubes.
 

@nlappos
Your point is well taken, but the expense of the lighter technology is a bitter pill.
Cheaper to fly with anorexic's on a half tank....
My Rotax 503 "On The Hook"
No muffler
No starter

Thanks Randy
I'm the guy who called you about 5 years ago asking you to convince  me to buy an Avid Plus, and I did.
I'm just starting to wade into my project again after a 4 year setback brought on by a crash I survived on climb out in the plane the Avid is to replace.
A pretty close call and my rational for installing the Lycoming.
A question specifically to you, have you ever considered amphib floats?
If not, why?
Love your posts.
I haven't seen your dissertation on the performance differences with the Rotax.
Jim R

Re: the Subaru EA81 It's on its way. I called Yellow Freight and they will bring it from Lafyette La. to Uxbridge for less than 500 bucks. The owner takes Pay Pal, which is just too convenient. I'll post more pics and info when it arrives. Thanks to all again for the help on this.

Hey Guys
I talked to the owner of the Subaru that is for sale on Barnstormers (thanks agin Jim C for the heads up)
He knows almost nothing about it except that it came out of a KR2, and that it ran when it came out.
He was going to install it in a Karatoo but found a Continental 65 with a mount that allowed him to bolt it right into his plane, which ended a lot of fitting and fabricating.
I told him the sale is likely a go and that I would call a trucking firm to see what it's going to cost to get it up here.
I figure for 2K (Canadian) it is worth the risk.
Here is a picture of the beast.
He says the Reduction Drive looks manufactured as opposed to homemade, and has numbers stamped on it.
Here are a couple of pictures (I hope)
If the pictures come through, my thanks to C5Engineer's tutorial
Comes on a motor mount bolted to a pallet ... ready to ship
What do you guys think? 

Thanks guys for the great advice.
@ Jim Chuk, I have left a message for more info on that Soob on Barnstormers.
It sounds like it may be exactly what I am looking for, thanks for the tip
I am going to try to contact Randy Tyler directly regarding the performance of his Avid Plus running the Subaru.
I know he indicated he loves his setup in response to my introductory post.
I've had a photo of his plane as my desktop background as inspiration since joining this group, .... she's a beauty.
I've also read a bunch of his (and others) posts while coveting his Avid (not one of the seven deadly sins) and I believe the first reduction drive he had didn't work for him and he had to replace it with a different unit.
If any of you have any experience (good or bad) with other engines in Avid Plus' please feel free to weigh in.
I would like to get as much of the ugly stuff out of the way before I start covering the fuselage.
Thanks again

Hey Ed:
Thanks for the response.
I read this months Kitplanes article on engines but was bummed by the crazy prices for 4 strokes.
I have been reading that a larger diameter prop turning slower on a re-drive is better for a float plane.
It seems that without a reduction the max prop diameter (depending on RPM of course) is somewhere in the 60 inch dia. range.
With a reduction approximately 70".
What I am trying to avoid is loading the tail with lead to compensate for too heavy an engine ... without knowing what too heavy is.
I'm sure it is all a game of compromises.
I'm just trying to get an idea of what people are having success with and what weight engine the Avid Plus is capable of supporting.
 
Regarding your questions:
I am in a small town about 25 miles north east of Toronto Ontario Canada
MD-RA stands for Minister Delegate - Recreational Aviation it is the agency that is responsible for inspecting aircraft for Transport Canada
The history of the plane allowed me to bring it into Canada from upstate New York as "aircraft parts" 
This was due to the Airdale Fuselage being brand new and unregistered.
The Wings and Horizontal Control surfaces had flown on a MK IV, but since the fuselage carries the serial number these parts were orphaned when the original fuse was damaged and sold.
I was very specific with the MD-RA before I bought it and it was their suggestion to bring it in as "Parts"
I have given it a serial number of JR7274 and have listed it as, Make: Airdale   Model: Avid Plus, with a MTOW of 1200 LBS, and so far all is moving ahead.
The MD-RA told me before I bought it that I would have to have the aircraft inspected 3 times to get it to qualify as amateur homebuilt
The first inspection is "Major Portion" that ensures 51% or more than the plane will be assembled / fabricated by me. This was required because the wings and tail have flown and they have to confirm that the fuselage has not.
The second inspection is the "Pre-cover" which allows them to see the structural integrity of the entire plane including all welds, control cables and rods to control surfaces.
This is why I have to pull the fabric off. I don't mind the extra work as the existing fabric is "not bad, but not great either". Also one wing had already been stripped before I bought the plane. 
The third inspection is the "Pre Flight" and takes place at the airport.
All this is to avoid registering this plane as Canadian Basic Ultralight, which limits the gross to 1150 Lbs, requires mandatory helmets, and does not allow unlicensed passengers.
My Challenger is registered basic, and this was the primary reason for getting a 2nd plane.
JR

Thanks for the hearty welcome.
I am thinking I should move this exchange off of the 'introduce yourself' sub forum and into the Fat Avids one but seem to be getting good response here. 
I guess the first question I have, to those registered and flying Fat Avids, is what MTOW are you using and how did you arrive at it.
With the parts I have, c/w Heavy Hauler wings, I am trying to get it registered here in Canada at a gross weight of 1232 lbs.
Here Advanced Ultralights can be registered up to 1232 lbs and Basic Ultralights to 1200 lbs
Amateur homebuilt can be registered at any weight, however 1232 lbs is the maximum gross I can legally fly with an Ultralight Pilot Permit,
As I said previously, I have looked at the Canadian Aircraft Registry, where MTOW's are published with the registration, and have found quite a few Canadian Avid Mk IV's with Gross Weights of up to 1200 lbs.
I may have to contact them to see how they did it.
 
There is a reference to a wing modification on the Airdale site that indicates a 1400 lb gross:
-Modifications to Avid wing to increase Gross Weight capability to 1400 lb.
-Full stress analysis to comply with JAR regulations at 1400 lb. Maximum Takeoff Weight.
Is anyone aware of what the modifications are?
Since I am going to have to strip all components of fabric prior to my "pre-cover" inspection I will have the opportunity to make these mods then.
 
With regards to the Carry Through Tube spacing, yes, the vertical pivot tubes / "bushings" (rear) and the front vertical attachment tubes, were all removed.
The rear ones moved back and front ones moved forward slightly in the Carry Through Tubes.
This results in the vertical tubes (front and rear) not being located center in the Carry Through Tubes.
I fretted about this pre-purchase but am getting over it now.
The Fuse is under a tarp in the backyard but I will get some pictures of what's been done soon.
I am sorting through the stuff that came with the plane and reading through the Mk IV manual before I start anything but hope to start working on it before the end of the month.
Before I can begin I have to have the MD-RA come and inspect it to ensure the 51% requirement is met for a home-built.
I envision me having to disassemble what I have piece by piece until he says "yeah, that looks like 51%" .... we'll see ... this is Canada after all.
I have applied and hope to get an inspection scheduled within the next week or so.
Anyway, so far I am delighted with my purchase and the response from this forum.
Jim R
To all you banjo-pickers out there. 
Playing excellence is in the ear of the beholder.
Just ask any Bagpiper 

Hey Doug:
You are correct regarding the engine mount from Bruce, it is for a Jabiru.
Below is an excerpt from Mark Shindler on the Avid Unofficial Home Page
 
I had flown my new setup for another 60 hours when I suffered a bent fuselage in a hard landing. I took my fuselage to Florida where a friend of mine repaired the damage. 
In the meantime Steve W. offered a "fat" Avid fuselage which added 16" to the length, 4" to the width at the seat and 8"-10" in the panel. I've decided to make that upgrade.
 
It appears it is a Fat Avid Upgrade Fuselage.
It has the counter-balanced rudder (I love the looks of it) and I believe differential flaperons.
I took the liberty of checking your profile and it seems you have a few irons in the fire, along with the Fat Avid.
You are correct regarding the engine, it does not have one.
That will require a ton of research to determine what is the best (most cost effective) choice.
The Rotax 912 is the immediate choice, but seem to be pricey.
Because the aircraft is being registered here amateur / home-built, it allows me quite a few engine options.
I'll be looking for suggestions regarding the ideal power-plant, but realize it is a subjective topic on its own.
 
The wings are off of Bruce's previously registered and flown Avid Mk IV ... D? and have been fitted to the fuselage by Bruce.
I have not had them on yet but he assured me they were installed and set by him.
One thing I was not completely crazy about was that the wing spars did not line up with the cross tubes on the fuselage and he had to move the vertical pivot tubes slightly back in the cross tubes.
They are no longer center in the cross tubes, and this is something I may have to address with doublers or repositioning,
Are you aware of this problem with spar alignment?
No avionic gauges or instruments came with the aircraft.
The Mark IV was registered and flown by Bruce, so the Wings, Wing Struts, Horizontal Stabilizer and Elevator have all flown
On the MTOW, I am hoping to get it rated for 1232 pounds. (Maximum Gross Weight that can be flown with a Canadian Ultralight Pilot Permit)
The Standard Mk IV with heavy hauler wings I believe is rated for 1150 lbs
On the Canadian Aircraft Registry Website, all registered aircraft list their Gross Weight and I have found several Mk IV's rated at 545 Kilograms (= 1200 lbs)
The Airdale site says the Gross Weight can be bumped to 1400 lbs, but with your input regarding my Fuselage I may be misinterpreting it.
You indicate that there are some safety concerns I should be aware of.
Is there a forum you can direct me to that discusses them?
Are there some significant ones I need to address before starting?
It seems as though you are fairly knowledgeable with respect to Fat Avid's and any input from you would be greatly appreciated.
With the current status of Airdale, I was a little more than apprehensive about purchasing the Avid, but after perusing this forum realized that there was more than enough support to take this project on,
 
The Airdale is the production version of John Larsen's renowned "Pursang". John took his original Avid MkIV "Hauler" and highly modified it to suit the popular 4 cycle, 4 cylinder horizontally opposed 100hp Subaru EA81 auto engine. Engines now include Continental and Rotax.
Modifications to the original Avid included the following:
-Fuselage stretched by 16" to give better ground handling and CG flexibility.
-Tow piece, easy to install, 74" wide track aluminum landing gear.
-Re-raked windshield.
-Simplified control system which incorporated differential flaperon controls.
-Redesign of cockpit structure to remove tubes from behind seats giving easier access to a larger baggage area(55 gal. drum size).
-Individual, fully adjustable, easy to remove tilt and slide seats.
-Belly structure in footwell area modified to give extra leg and head room.
-Double tailspring for better resilience to rough terrain landings.
-Wider cockpit and doors to accommodate larger pilot and passenger.
-Redesigned cowling to accommodate greater range of engines.
-Modifications to Avid wing to increase Gross Weight capability to 1400 lb.
-Full stress analysis to comply with JAR regulations at 1400 lb. Maximum Takeoff Weight.
 

@ Horsepower, the only family member who isn't completely on board is the wife.
The 2nd airplane really caught her off guard.

Yes this is that Avid.
Bruce is still on Barnstormers with an engine mount for a Subaru engine that fits a Standard Mark IV fuse.
It would not fit the Airdale Fuse.
He owned and built the mk IV the wings and tail came from and bought the fuselage in 2005 I believe.
He is currently working on a Zenair 701 on floats which prompted him to sell the Avid Plus project.
We hammered out a deal near the beginning of December and I picked it up from his place in New York State Dec 28th.
The project has now taken over all of the garage, a significant portion of the basement and part of the back yard.
Airplanes are definitely an "In Your Face" hobby.
@ Horsepower, the only family member who isn't completely on board is the wife.
The 2nd airplane really caught her off guard.