Flaperon Cables

[High Country 69]

Im planning to convert the flaperon control system on my Avid B over to the airdale cable design. Iv'e got the mixer controls figured out for under the left seat now im just looking for the specifics on what cables i need. I should be able to have some made localy at Boise riging supply but im looking for how long,what diameter, material, what type of ends, push/pull rating, any other pertinant information im forgetting . also if any one has some good pics of where the washers are welded to the airframe for the cable to route through.

Thanks Robert

Edited 23 Jan 2012 by High Country

[Av8r3400 1178]

Airdales are pretty rare beasts. I wouldn't be shy to call Brett at Airdale. He may be able to give you some incite and suggestions for the conversion.

[EDMO 1078]

Im planning to convert the flaperon control system on my Avid B over to the airdale cable design. Iv'e got the mixer controls figured out for under the left seat now im just looking for the specifics on what cables i need. I should be able to have some made localy at Boise riging supply but im looking for how long,what diameter, material, what type of ends, push/pull rating, any other pertinant information im forgetting . also if any one has some good pics of where the washers are welded to the airframe for the cable to route through.

Thanks Robert

When did Airdale start using cables? I watched #1 being built, and didn't know about them.

Why would cables be better or safer than tubes?

I nearly died when a Cessna flap cable broke on final just over the threshold in Alaska - some Great Spirit took hold of the plane and rotated it from a near 90 degree bank (seemed like it) and turned it back flat as I firewalled the rudder and ailerons while grabbing for the flap handle, throttle and carb heat! NEVER want to be in that situation again!!!

Do what you want - I will stay with push-pull tubes.

Ed in MO

[dholly 718]

This is the setup on my Avid+.

[EDMO 1078]

This is the setup on my Avid+.

OK, Thanks. I can see now that they are push - pull enclosed cables. Not like the flimsy Cessna cables that go around corners and across pulleys, etc. Better opinion now that I have seen photos. Guess I just wasn't tuned in to them on the Airdale. Do you have photos that show arrangement from stick column back?

Ed in MO

Edited 23 Jan 2012 by Ed In Missouri

[dholly 718]

Ed- I believe you can see pics of the whole setup in the Avid+ Forum > Flight Controls thread. If not I can take and post some more... still trying to measure the turtle deck. My Mom passed last week so I've been busy with other priorities.

[High Country 69]

This is the setup on my Avid+.

-PERFECT- This is just what im looking for. My call to Boise Rigging was to late today they were closed so i will try again tomorrow. I tried cross referencing your part number on their website but could not find it- http://www.boiserigging.com/categories/Push%252dPull-Cables/

If you get a chance could you please take some pictures of where the cables attach to the frame and to the flapperons

I may have been wrong that this was the airdale style i just knew i have seen it somewhere and liked it.

Thanks Robert

[dholly 718]

@ Robert-

The teleflex cables are secured along their length at two hard points each. The mounting tabs are located just aft of the mixer assembly under the seat and on the inside of the fuse just under the flaperon horn. Both are shown in the pics above. The cables have adjustable Heim joint rod end bearings at each end. The forward end of the cable connects to the mixer assembly flaperon control horns, aft end directly to the flaperon horns (my pic above shows a red plastic thread protector cap on the aft end, I didn't have the Heim bearings on yet).

Post a pic of your homemade mixer so I can see what you're up to.

[High Country 69]

Thanks for all the great info. I just spoke w Boise rigging and they want 85.91 per cable. but i guess i have to have them and at least i can get them local. I still have to weld everything in i just wanted to have all of the parts to fit up before i start welding so once i get it all done i will post some pics. still working on figuring out the flap handle as my airframe is much narrower than the fat avid thus making for some tight areas where the elevator push/pull rod comes through the bungee truss and where the two linkages go forward to the flap handle, but i should be able to off set the F-1 mixer just a bit to the left without making any difference as long as the cables are mounted so as to still get equal push/pull... correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Robert

Edited 26 Jan 2012 by High Country

[SuberAvid 617]

Robert, The mixer assembly is completely offset under the pilot seat in the Avid + and the linkage to pull the flaps is done through the seat truss.

[High Country 69]

Thanks for the pic. so it looks as though the shinny rod actually pivots under the bungees, yes, no. if so wouldn't the pressure from the bungees make it pretty tight to adjust the flaps? I'm a bit narrower than your fuselage so i have a tighter area to put the linkages through and the ideal place is right where part of the truss is welded in. I'm thinking of just running a small rod to connect the f7-A's then just run one off set rod up from that to the flap handle. Should i actually get some time this weekend i will get some mounts cut and fitted up and tack it all together and see how it works. I will try to figure out the whole picture thing so you can see what I'm talking about.

-Robert-

[SuberAvid 617]

Thanks for the pic. so it looks as though the shinny rod actually pivots under the bungees, yes, no. if so wouldn't the pressure from the bungees make it pretty tight to adjust the flaps? I'm a bit narrower than your fuselage so i have a tighter area to put the linkages through and the ideal place is right where part of the truss is welded in. I'm thinking of just running a small rod to connect the f7-A's then just run one off set rod up from that to the flap handle. Should i actually get some time this weekend i will get some mounts cut and fitted up and tack it all together and see how it works. I will try to figure out the whole picture thing so you can see what I'm talking about.

-Robert-

Robert,

The shiny tube is a torq tube for the flaps and runs through a sleeve tube welded to the seat truss where the bungees wrap and a uhmw block supports the end near the pilot side door. The torq tube sticks out of the sleeve tube just a little on the passenger sie of the center and the flap handle is bolted to it there. The tee link is bolted to the torq tube to pull the flap linkage. I fabricated the detent system to give positive flap adjustment.

[High Country 69]

It's gonna work!!! I think. so i got the new mounts fabricated this weekend and have it all clamped together to test it. There is not much clearance on the elevator push/pull tube but it should be ok plus when i get the new F7-A's it will pull it in a bit giving me some more clearance. I was going to weld it in but i ran out of oxygen while welding in the new dorsal fin. gonna have to go into town next weekend and get it filled. I will try and get some pictures poseted up tomorrow of my new mounts. It seems as though the push/pull tube will rub on the bungies is this normal?

-Robert-

[EDMO 1078]

Ed- I believe you can see pics of the whole setup in the Avid+ Forum > Flight Controls thread. If not I can take and post some more... still trying to measure the turtle deck. My Mom passed last week so I've been busy with other priorities.

Sorry for your loss. Thanks for the info. Will be checking on it when I can.

Now, it seems as tho I remember the cables on the Airdale. But, getting old, so have to compensate at times!

Ed in MO

Edited 1 Feb 2012 by Ed In Missouri

[jackak 20]

Robert,

I hope you picked up on that the actual routing of the push-pull cable is not as they would appear. When Randy was hooking his up he found that if the cables were routed in the direction that the mounting plate under the seat would suggest that they go, the controls were reversed! So, what I'm trying to say is that the cable on the pilot's side goes to the pilot-side flaperon, the cable on the passenger side goes to that flaperon. They don't go to the side that they are angled towards. Also as you're welding in the mount bracket below the flaperon , check to see where the actual bracket needs to be when the controls are in the neutral pos. and the flaperon arm is horizontal, Randy had to fabricate a new bracket around 4-5 inches lower than the one from the factory. I'm sure he would be glad to provide the specific details when you get to that stage of your build. Hope this helps.

Jack

[High Country 69]

Robert,

I hope you picked up on that the actual routing of the push-pull cable is not as they would appear. When Randy was hooking his up he found that if the cables were routed in the direction that the mounting plate under the seat would suggest that they go, the controls were reversed! So, what I'm trying to say is that the cable on the pilot's side goes to the pilot-side flaperon, the cable on the passenger side goes to that flaperon. They don't go to the side that they are angled towards. Also as you're welding in the mount bracket below the flaperon , check to see where the actual bracket needs to be when the controls are in the neutral pos. and the flaperon arm is horizontal, Randy had to fabricate a new bracket around 4-5 inches lower than the one from the factory. I'm sure he would be glad to provide the specific details when you get to that stage of your build. Hope this helps.

Jack

Thanks for the tip. from looking at other pics i was thinking that the cables crossed over to the opposite sides so its good to be set straight on this before i measure and order the cables. Perhaps Randy could hook me up with some pics and measurements for those upper cable mounts and how i should determine where to place them .

here are a couple pics of what i have going so far. You can see that my seat truss is closer together than the newer models so I'm planning to put a spacer in to hold the flap linkages apart and just have an offset linkage going forward through the seat truss to the flap handle. i do have the elevator push pull tube in now(not in the pics) so i can see the clearance on it, its a bit close but should work. It will be even better once i change out the F7's for the F7-A's and pull the arms in a bit. i have noticed that the elevator push pull tube seems to drag quite a bit on the front bushing where it has the most bend to it. I'm thinking of cutting it in half there and making a joint for it to pivot on seems as though it would reduce ware and smoothen up the controls a bit. I wonder how the newer models got around this problem? hmmm.

-Robert-

Edited 1 Feb 2012 by High Country

[High Country 69]

I got the new mount for the flaperon mixer all welded in this weekend. also got the new dorsal fin welded in. next question i have is where exactly should the mount be welded for the upper cable attachment. also how many inches of push and how many inches of pull should i have at the cable ends from the neutral position? I'm hoping to order some F7-A's and cables soon so i can finish up this part of my project. My other concern is what to do about keeping the seat from falling down onto the mixer. i was thinking about stretching some safety cables tight across the top of it and possibly attaching some thin aluminum on top of that. good idea, bad idea? what have others used for this?

-Robert-

[SuberAvid 617]

I got the new mount for the flaperon mixer all welded in this weekend. also got the new dorsal fin welded in. next question i have is where exactly should the mount be welded for the upper cable attachment. also how many inches of push and how many inches of pull should i have at the cable ends from the neutral position? I'm hoping to order some F7-A's and cables soon so i can finish up this part of my project. My other concern is what to do about keeping the seat from falling down onto the mixer. i was thinking about stretching some safety cables tight across the top of it and possibly attaching some thin aluminum on top of that. good idea, bad idea? what have others used for this?

-Robert-

Robert,

I attached some pics of my cable attach mounts at the flaperons. The first ones are where the mounting tabs were welded; the second ones show the standoff mount I had to make to lower the mounting points. If you weld the mounting tabs in the right location you won't have to build a standoff. I set my flaperon horns pretty much horzontal and the mounting tabs so the cable travel was about centered so I could get good travel up and down. With this system you have to disconnect the cable ends at the flaperon horns when you fold the wings so exact position is not critical to position the flaperons vertical when the wing folds.

As far as the seat, I would put a pan of some kind over the mixer. The Avid+ has a solid seat bottom so it can't sag into the mixer.

[High Country 69]

Thanks for the pics of the mount locations. This does bring up yet another question though. It seems to me that the cable for the right side would be just a bit longer than the one on the left, Is this correct? based off of the part# on the tag in the photo this cable is 60" long how long is the other one?

sorry to keep asking questions but i want to get it right the first time.

-Robert-

[jackak 20]

Robert,

Just measured mine and the short one is 60" tip to tip. The housing is 53 1/4" including the approx. 5 3/4" guide tubes on each end. The long cable is approx. 78 1/2" overall, the housing, including the guide tubes is 71 1/4" overall. It looks like the max. travel for the cables is about 5" when you measure from the bottom of the threaded end on the cable to the end of the guide tube on the housing. Hope this all makes sense.

Jack

[High Country 69]

Thats exactly what i was looking for. Thanks. sure glad i waited to have these made, i almost had two short cables.

-Robert-

Edited 13 Mar 2012 by High Country