Someone near DC to help transition?

[dchasteen 0]

I bought an Avid Mk IV with a 582 last year around this time. Due to minor misfortune and poor discretion, the plane is only now flying again after a little work and an annual. I went out with an instructor today to fly it and found that, as when I purchased and first flew it, it is very very twitchy on the takeoff and landing roll. I find it very difficult to keep stright. I did my tailwheel transition in a Citabria and am continuing instruction on the Citabria in transition to PPL from my Sport Pilot. I'm a 100-hour pilot. I've flown 4 planes in the last month, a Cessna Skycatcher, a Remos G3 and the Citabria in addition to the Avid. I found all very easy to takeoff, taxi and land, except the Avid. I had purchased the plane with a partner for him to get primary instruction. After flying it today I think that the plane probably isn't a great choice either for my first plane or for my partner. It might be different if we were going to be flying primarily on grass, but we're operating at paved airports for the most part.

It could be that there's something wrong with the plane (A&P rebuilt and adjusted the tailwheel) but I don't think so. I think it's just a naturally twitchy tailwheel. Is there an Avid or Kitfox owner near DC who'd be willing to come have a look and maybe test-fly the plane to see if it's properly adjusted? Alternately, maybe you can teach me how to fly the thing without wrecking it.

More alternately, it's probably going up for sale to pay for something more Citabria-like.

[Bandit 286]

Try Brett's new cabane spring gear and a Matco tailwheel. With that combination it will make it a different airplane.

[Av8r3400 1178]

I bought an Avid Mk IV with a 582 last year around this time. Due to minor misfortune and poor discretion, the plane is only now flying again after a little work and an annual. I went out with an instructor today to fly it and found that, as when I purchased and first flew it, it is very very twitchy on the takeoff and landing roll. I find it very difficult to keep stright. I did my tailwheel transition in a Citabria and am continuing instruction on the Citabria in transition to PPL from my Sport Pilot. I'm a 100-hour pilot. I've flown 4 planes in the last month, a Cessna Skycatcher, a Remos G3 and the Citabria in addition to the Avid. I found all very easy to takeoff, taxi and land, except the Avid. I had purchased the plane with a partner for him to get primary instruction. After flying it today I think that the plane probably isn't a great choice either for my first plane or for my partner. It might be different if we were going to be flying primarily on grass, but we're operating at paved airports for the most part.

It could be that there's something wrong with the plane (A&P rebuilt and adjusted the tailwheel) but I don't think so. I think it's just a naturally twitchy tailwheel. Is there an Avid or Kitfox owner near DC who'd be willing to come have a look and maybe test-fly the plane to see if it's properly adjusted? Alternately, maybe you can teach me how to fly the thing without wrecking it.

More alternately, it's probably going up for sale to pay for something more Citabria-like.

David - Don't give up yet. As to Bandit's idea, that's good, but maybe not yet necessary either.

First thing to check is the alignment of the main gear. (If you can't do this contact your A&P again.) The optimum situation is to have them at 0° caster, meaning no toe in or toe out on the tires. Toe in is the worst. This is the most common situation making the plane "squirley" on the ground. Adjustment is the same as a Piper tail dragger: Long pipe over the axle and bend the gear leg to get proper alignment. Simple - Yes. Elegant - No.

Second, check the function of your brakes. Good operating brakes make a world of difference in ground handling. Do you have the mechanical drums or hydro discs?

Next, find yourself a CFI that has time in not only tail draggers, but short coupled tail draggers. Something like a Pitts is a good comparison. You should be able to find someone in a large metro area like DC. These planes handle nothing like a Citabria or Cub on the ground or in the air. Very light and quick controls and lots of adverse yaw.

Don't quit before you even start! I know of people who have done their primary training in Kitfoxes and Avids. These are great handling little planes, they just demand some training and respect. They personify the rule that you don't stop flying it until you're tied down. Once you know how to handle this plane there will be nothing you can't fly and fly well.

Edited 27 Feb 2012 by Av8r3400

[Bandit 286]

I agree, changing the landing gear and tailwheel would be the last option. Try Av8r3400's option's first. I sure wouldn't give up that easy. You do have to stay ahead of them, but if everything is true and you get the proper training they are a blast to fly. Remember there are all kinds of modifications you can do to improve the handling before you try to sell it.

[dchasteen 0]

I agree, changing the landing gear and tailwheel would be the last option. Try Av8r3400's option's first. I sure wouldn't give up that easy. You do have to stay ahead of them, but if everything is true and you get the proper training they are a blast to fly. Remember there are all kinds of modifications you can do to improve the handling before you try to sell it.

Thanks for the feedback, gentlemen. I think at the very least I'm going to go back out and practice some takeoff runs. I'm going to check wheel alignment, tire pressure as well. (Recommendations on psi?) With me and an instructor, the plan was at gross. I think the prop is well adjusted. I was seeing just under 6500 RPMSs on takeoff. Being that heavy, and a malfunctioning trim meant I didn't want to use flaps, so we were coming in a lot faster than necessary. This wasn't doing me any favors, I think. I was doing all the flying and the instructor doesn't have brakes, so I don't think he was really accomplishing much anyway. Next time I fly, maybe I'll try it solo.

[dchasteen 0]

David - Don't give up yet. As to Bandit's idea, that's good, but maybe not yet necessary either.

First thing to check is the alignment of the main gear. (If you can't do this contact your A&P again.) The optimum situation is to have them at 0° caster, meaning no toe in or toe out on the tires. Toe in is the worst. This is the most common situation making the plane "squirley" on the ground. Adjustment is the same as a Piper tail dragger: Long pipe over the axle and bend the gear leg to get proper alignment. Simple - Yes. Elegant - No.

Second, check the function of your brakes. Good operating brakes make a world of difference in ground handling. Do you have the mechanical drums or hydro discs?

Next, find yourself a CFI that has time in not only tail draggers, but short coupled tail draggers. Something like a Pitts is a good comparison. You should be able to find someone in a large metro area like DC. These planes handle nothing like a Citabria or Cub on the ground or in the air. Very light and quick controls and lots of adverse yaw.

Don't quit before you even start! I know of people who have done their primary training in Kitfoxes and Avids. These are great handling little planes, they just demand some training and respect. They personify the rule that you don't stop flying it until you're tied down. Once you know how to handle this plane there will be nothing you can't fly and fly well.

Hydraulic brakes. The left one was mushy, but the A&P charged it and it's better, though it's still hard to spin it to the left versus to the right. I have an experienced instructor who's lighter, but at a different airport, who's been instructing me on the Citabria. Maybe I'll see if she can come to the other airport.

[Av8r3400 1178]

Thanks for the feedback, gentlemen. I think at the very least I'm going to go back out and practice some takeoff runs.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!

This is the fastest way to wreck your airplane and maybe yourself. Crow hopping or bunny hopping these planes is the fastest way to disaster! Either fly it or keep it in the hangar.

Please find an instructor who has experience either in a Avid/Kitfox or a similar short coupled taildragger. Have them fly your plane solo for a few hours to learn the habits of your plane, then show them to you.

[horsepower 24]

David,I had some of the same problems your talking about.The ground handling will probably be better when your solo because it will take off much shorter,but dont do it until your truly ready.I did the crow hops on a grass strip and almost crashed my plane,you just dont have the time to get them set up properly for a landing.My Skyraider was a handful at first and I thought something was wrong,I have to give it a ton of left rudder on takeoff just to keep it climbing out straight and pretty much lead with rudder going into a turn.I do a 3 point landing and Im on the pedals instantly with just a little toggle back and forth.Ive got to the stage of landing without embarrasing myself.Dont give up,just stay on top of it.I did my tailwheel training in a Piper Vagabond and my instructor told me that if my feet wasnt moving when I landed that I was in the first stage of a groundloop.I was all scared and nervous after that but its starting to all come together.I agree with AV8er hold off on the little crow hops,at least in my experience with them.Good Luck Randy

[dchasteen 0]

I'll hold off on the runups. )