Pull Starter

[BryceKat 125]

Anybody ever use a pull starter on a 582 w/ c box MKIV, what was your experience? Thinking of removing my electric starter to save forward cg weight. Thanks,Bryce

[dholly 718]

Bryce- brand new recoil starter for sale in the classifieds, open to offers.

[TheDeltaFox 0]

I rope start my MkIV. I have a C box with 3:1 ratio. Fires up in a couple pulls and works fine. I wouldn't recommend going away from the electric starter though. In the winter with the inverted 582 and perhaps a few drops of oil on the plugs after sitting for a couple/three weeks, it can take a fair amount of pulling. If the plugs are wet its almost faster to just do a quick plug change and start pulling with dry plugs and it fires right up.

Remember that the 582 ignition needs a certain speed to fire and can require a hefty pull when everything is cold in the winter. I'm personally going to switch to an electric start once its overhaul time on this 582. I'm pretty sure I would not be able to give a good enough pull from inside the cab if the thing quite in flight. Just my opinion though.

D

[BryceKat 125]

Doug,

That's for a blue head, I have a grayhead.

Darcy,

When you pull start your plane, are you sitting in the cockpit or standing outside the cockpit? Have you tried pull starting it from the cockpit? Thanks, Bryce

[Bandit 286]

I have pull start on my 503. Never had a problem with it, a matter of fact it starts better in the cold than in the summer. I start it from outside the cockpit, 2 to 3 pulls. I would never put electric start in mine unless for some reason I could not pull start it because of a physical reason. Remember you are adding much more weight with that system, not worth it for me.

[TheDeltaFox 0]

Bryce,

I stand out side the plane. The strut is right behind my leg and I give a good yank on an angle out the door. Does the trick and i'm up to 18 hrs on my little Avid now and no in-flight issues. With the strut behind my leg there's very little chance of it ever running away. I don't think i'd be able to give enough of a yank to start it from inside and leaning forward to grab the rope by the firewall would also be an issue. I have my shoulder harness just loose enough to close the door and the lap belt stays nice and tight. Also, if the engine ever quit in flight I wouldn't even bother trying a restart unless I was cruising up high at a couple thousand AGL.

Darcy

[efil 01 74]

hello ! 

i'm back , my c model project is near finished , and wanting to be lighter than possible, i plan to pull start my 582.

So i wonder how can you lock the breaks if you stand outside?

Then, i had the advice to not put primer but a "starter" cause of the down head config.. what do you think?

Edited 25 Sep 2015 by manu F

[1avidflyer 1983]

I had a pull starter in my Avid with a 532.  If it had sat for a while, a bit of oil would accumulate in the spark plugs.  When I went to start it, I would give it a few pulls to blast the oil out of the plugs and then prime it and start as normal.  That helped to keep from flooding the engine.  If you have hydrolic brakes, you could put a parking brake valve in the brake lines.  I never had one on my Avid and it wasn't a problem ever.  Jim Chuk

[EDMO 1078]

Lots of guys in the bush will hand prop their Continental/Lycoming engines from behind the prop, making sure that the throttle is just cracked open a little, then get into the cockpit - most of them probably don't have a lock valve on the brakes - some put a handle on the cowl or windshield post to hang onto while propping.

If your throttle is set to idle when starting you should have no problems pull starting.

Until you are comfortable doing this, you can chock one wheel or both with long ropes on rhe chocks so you can pull them loose from or near the cockpit after starting.

Note: You only need one chock in front of wheel.

EdMO

Edited 25 Sep 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[MarkD 53]

Matco has a brake lock.  I installed one in a RANs S-6S I built for my Father-In-Law.  It works surprisingly well and will hold the plane against a nearly full power run up.  It was very simple to install and is cable operated.

 

MarkD

[FoxDB 17]

I have a gray head 582 w/ 3/1 C box and IVO prop in my Kitfox mod 1. I do not have a pull starter just the electric. I have shut my engine down in flight and restarted using the electric starter, It worked, just had to hit it when the prop stopped briefly. I also started it using prop turning in the wind but I had to nose down to get above 80 MPH before it would turn fast enough to start. PUT IN THE ELECTRIC STARTER.

IMHO

[FoxDB 17]

I have a gray head 582 w/ 3/1 C box and IVO prop in my Kitfox mod 1. I do not have a pull starter just the electric. I have shut my engine down in flight and restarted using the electric starter, It worked, just had to hit it when the prop stopped briefly. I also started it using prop turning in the wind but I had to nose down to get above 80 MPH before it would turn fast enough to start. PUT IN THE ELECTRIC STARTER.

IMHO

[Bandit 286]

I have been pull starting mine for 19 years, no problem so far. I didnt want the extra weight.

[C5Engineer 1170]

My 503 always pull started better then my 582. You can't hand prop a 2 stroke with a gearbox Ed. Can't spin it fast enough at least when it's cold. The original Avids had the rope running into the cabin but from what I have heard they were a pain to pull sitting in the seat. With the E box you can retain the pull start and have electric start. That's saved my butt in the brush more than once with my old battery set up that didn't have enough CCA to hit the magical 300 crank rpm to make her fire.

[EDMO 1078]

Joey,

The E box with pull start sounds like a good deal, but he was trying to save weight.

I wasn't telling him to prop his 2-stroke, just that other 4-stroke pilots without starters could prop them standing outside of the plane without locking the brakes or having a runaway plane. I think I said, "Continental/Lycoming".

Sorry if anyone misunderstood what I was saying.

Stay safe, "High-Flyer",

EdMO

Edited 26 Sep 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[Av8r3400 1178]

 

This is our buddy Dave Fischer from London Ontario (Kanukistan) hand propping his 582 powered Kitfox.

 

One of my chapter mates hand propped his 503 powered Ridge Runner for years, until recently he got an electric starter.

[1avidflyer 1983]

The Avid B I had with a 532 in it had points ignition (and the pull starter) and it was easy to hand prop. I've also started the 582s by hand propping plenty of times, but you have to flip them pretty fast to make spark. Points ignition made spark at way slower RPM. Wasn't always successful hand propping a real cold 582. Even though I used synthetic oil in the gear box, it does get thicker at 0 degrees F. Jim Chuk

[EDMO 1078]

I don't think I would walk away from one running if it had wheels, unless chocked or tail tied.

I have seen videos of runaways, and they were scary - One guy got hit by the prop and died.

Propping from behind the prop is always safer, but maybe don't work too well with 2-strokes?

EdMO

Edited 26 Sep 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[C5Engineer 1170]

I've seen that video of Dave and still don't know how he did it. I tried on mine twice with a 2 bladed warp and it didn't even think of coming to life. Ed you are right about the propping from behind. I am on a Facebook page dedicated to hand propping. Lots of cool videos of people giving then half a flip from behind the prop. I did my TW training in a champ with no electrical and the whole first day was just safe starting procedures.

[marksires 484]

The guys that built mine didn't put in the electric starter at first.  They said after the first flight pull starting it, they ordered the electric start option. Pretty much settles it in my book!

Mark

[FoxDB 17]

Joey,

I have hand propped my 582 many times. Low battery, bad starter relay and to cold to for starter to crank. It's not a one pop crank though you have to get a few comps at least.

[1avidflyer 1983]

Joey, I think a two blade prop would be harder to flip than the three blade. With yours, one hand can't follow the other as easy. The first hand starts the flip, and the second hand speeds it up. You have more power pushing down than pulling up. Try it some time with a three blade, you'll see what I mean. Watch how Dave does it in the video and where his hands go. Jim Chuk

[EDMO 1078]

I guess it might be different with a 2-cyl, 2-stroke, but I had the idea that you should not be propping the composite props with a 4-cyl, 4-stroke engine? Don't know if Warp Drive or IVO recommends that

Of course, when you must do it, that is a different situation.

EdMO

Edited 27 Sep 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[1avidflyer 1983]

I've never tried, but I don't think you could hand prop a 912.  I know I never could with the Jabiru.  That's direct drive and you need at lest 300 RPMs to make spark.  Jim Chuk

[EDMO 1078]

Jim,

I wasn't even worried about the starting, just the strain on the composite prop, especially the foam-filled IVO. I have seen some of them with cracks at the root.

I think that propping them would be more damaging than propping a wood or metal prop each start on a Continental engine.

EdMO

Edited 27 Sep 2015 by Ed In Missouri