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Looking for some landing gear part numbers

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Posted

Does anyone know the part numbers for the Timken tapered bearings on the Douglas wheels? I'm also looking for the Matco part number for the pads that were used with the original Kitfox brakes. I called Kitfox and as usual they were of no help with a product that thousands of their airplanes are using.

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Posted

How about calling Matco? The wheels were not Matco, but the brakes were.

ED in MO

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Posted

How about calling Matco? The wheels were not Matco, but the brakes were.

ED in MO

Ed I called George Happ today earlier but they shut the shop down until after the 4th of July. I noticed the other day the piece forward of the rivet on one of my pad broke off. I just have not been able to get the braking power I used to have after redoing my brakes with the new gear. I'm going to start over from scratch with new pads and clean up my discs really well.

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Posted

Ed I called George Happ today earlier but they shut the shop down until after the 4th of July. I noticed the other day the piece forward of the rivet on one of my pad broke off. I just have not been able to get the braking power I used to have after redoing my brakes with the new gear. I'm going to start over from scratch with new pads and clean up my discs really well.

Happ was really nice and considerate to me when I called him some time ago.

Matco makes a slide-in sleeve for the 5/8 ID MCs like the later ones. It is supposed to increase your braking power by 30%.

I asked him if they made a kit for my MC-1(?), and he said the bore was already 1/2 inch, so no help there.

I have a complete set of Cleveland wheels, MCs and Big heavy calipers and discs off of a twin Piper - but too heavy for your plane.

Maybe twin-puck Matco might help you? Happ will have all the info.

ED in MO

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Posted

Does anyone know the part numbers for the Timken tapered bearings on the Douglas wheels? I'm also looking for the Matco part number for the pads that were used with the original Kitfox brakes. I called Kitfox and as usual they were of no help with a product that thousands of their airplanes are using.

Joey,

I use Rapco RA66-106 Pads for my Kitfox Matco brakes. I did have to get the longer rivets from Matco as the aluminum backer plates are thicker than the steel used for clevelands.

Dave

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Posted

jOEY,

About all of the Timken bearings I have seen have the number stamped on one of the races. Have you tried looking at yours?

ED in MO

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Posted

Happ was really nice and considerate to me when I called him some time ago.

Matco makes a slide-in sleeve for the 5/8 ID MCs brakinglike the later ones. It is supposed to increase your braking power by 30%.

I asked him if they made a kit for my MC-1(?), and he said the bore was already 1/2 inch, so no help there.

I have a complete set of Cleveland wheels, MCs and Big heavy calipers and discs off of a twin Piper - but too heavy for your plane.

Maybe twin-puck Matco might help you? Happ will have all the info.

ED in MO

Ed.

The increase would be 56%.

Joey,

What Master cylinders are you using? If they are 5/8" bore the intensifier kit would increase your braking pressure quite a bit. My masters are the MC-1 with the 1/2" bore and I have very good braking. I do use the RA66-106 pads they may have a greater friction coefficient.

Dave

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Posted

Ed.

The increase would be 56%.

Joey,

What Master cylinders are you using? If they are 5/8" bore the intensifier kit would increase your braking pressure quite a bit. My masters are the MC-1 with the 1/2" bore and I have very good braking. I do use the RA66-106 pads they may have a greater friction coefficient.

Dave

Thanks for the info Dave

ED in MO

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Posted

Yes the timken numbers are on the race. I just didn't want to tear it apart, put it back together, order parts and then tear it back apart again. I share a hangar and can't keep my plane on a jack. I am running MC-4D master cylinders. Guess I will just call and see what they can do. I've seen people that drilled their rotors too. I am thinking about doing that mod also.

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Posted

Yes the timken numbers are on the race. I just didn't want to tear it apart, put it back together, order parts and then tear it back apart again. I share a hangar and can't keep my plane on a jack. I am running MC-4D master cylinders. Guess I will just call and see what they can do. I've seen people that drilled their rotors too. I am thinking about doing that mod also.

Joey - I think I have them written in my manual, I'll check.

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Posted

Yes the timken numbers are on the race. I just didn't want to tear it apart, put it back together, order parts and then tear it back apart again. I share a hangar and can't keep my plane on a jack. I am running MC-4D master cylinders. Guess I will just call and see what they can do. I've seen people that drilled their rotors too. I am thinking about doing that mod also.

The sleeve and piston kit should give you a lot better brakes.

IMO, Drilling rotors only lightens them - dont see why it would increase braking power - might even wear pads faster - but should run cooler for long braking runs, which you probably dont need anyway - wont increase brakes for static runups.

ED in MO

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Posted

Timken Bearing # LM 11900LA

Timken Bearing Race # LM 11910 + USA

Brake Linings 5/6" Brake #M66-106

Does anyone know the part numbers for the Timken tapered bearings on the Douglas wheels? I'm also looking for the Matco part number for the pads that were used with the original Kitfox brakes.

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Posted

Thanks alot guys!

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Posted

Joey:

Don't drill your rotors.It is of no benifit.Sleeving the master cylinders is a waste of time as you have line psi coming out the wazoo already.Matco sets their torque and energy ratings at a line psi of 450.When you lay into your brakes hard you are approaching the 600 psi range already.when you went to the taller gear if you had to do some hyd line splicing and used rubber line there will be a problem with pressure obsorption. You also mentioned something about an issue with getting the brakes to bolt up to the new landing gear, having to do some adapting. If there is excessive flexing in this area then your brakes not work like they used to.Brake pads are easily buggered as well.very fine line between use and abuse (speaking from experience)

My speculation for your ponder.

Mike sk (designer of the elite avid toe brake system) :lol:

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Posted

Joey:

Don't drill your rotors.It is of no benifit.Sleeving the master cylinders is a waste of time as you have line psi coming out the wazoo already.Matco sets their torque and energy ratings at a line psi of 450.When you lay into your brakes hard you are approaching the 600 psi range already.when you went to the taller gear if you had to do some hyd line splicing and used rubber line there will be a problem with pressure obsorption. You also mentioned something about an issue with getting the brakes to bolt up to the new landing gear, having to do some adapting. If there is excessive flexing in this area then your brakes not work like they used to.Brake pads are easily buggered as well.very fine line between use and abuse (speaking from experience)

My speculation for your ponder.

Mike sk (designer of the elite avid toe brake system) :lol:

Mike thanks for the info. Everything is the same. I used to run my lines down the back legs of my old gear so the line was long enough to run down the front legs of the new gear. I'm using the 1/8" line from the bottom of my MC's to the calipers. I had a hard time getting the air out of the system this time around. I also think I may have gotten some fluid on the pads. One of my pads is missing a chunk too that's why want to replace them.

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Posted

Mike thanks for the info. Everything is the same. I used to run my lines down the back legs of my old gear so the line was long enough to run down the front legs of the new gear. I'm using the 1/8" line from the bottom of my MC's to the calipers. I had a hard time getting the air out of the system this time around. I also think I may have gotten some fluid on the pads. One of my pads is missing a chunk too that's why want to replace them.

Joey,

Have you checked your braking pressure?

Dave

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Posted

Mike thanks for the info. Everything is the same. I used to run my lines down the back legs of my old gear so the line was long enough to run down the front legs of the new gear. I'm using the 1/8" line from the bottom of my MC's to the calipers. I had a hard time getting the air out of the system this time around. I also think I may have gotten some fluid on the pads. One of my pads is missing a chunk too that's why want to replace them.

Joey,

Probably my last comment, since you have gotten so much advice.

If you have a pressure problem with your nylon lines - Look in Spruce, and you will see same size nylon lines listed in two different pressure ratings. Unless someone knows why not, then opt for the high pressure lines.

ED in MO

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Posted

get rid of the 1/8 " line

exchange it for 1/4" line

it works much much better for pressure and that alone will increase the pressure

most Matco brake issues are do to the master cylinder not getting correct 2.5 to 1 ratio when depressing toe brakes

or actuating the brake assemble of the master/toe brake combo

Tow brakes have a complicated geometry,

and if not done right can seriously hamper the efficiency of the brakeing

If you were to take the line off the caliper

and hook a pressure gauge up in that spot you could gauge the amount of pressure when applying the brake

from there you could adjust the master cylinder toe brake set up to give more pressure

There is probably very few out there who can produce above 450 psi pressure

which is the minimum that is needed for the brakes to work optimum

At least as far as the Matco installation pamphlet I got from Matco states

450 psi is just enough pressure and is at the bottom of the scale of what is acceptable pressure

no lower than 450 psi and up to 600 psi

over 600 psi and you actually get caliper/brake pad problems such as,

caliper deflections that will reduce the torque increase

Also,making sure both brake lining pads move in and out correctly and freely/smoothly

if the one pad that rides(compared to the pad that the piston moves as it is a one piston caliper)

if the ride pad gets sticky,then right there your braking is decreased by 50%

the calipers(and pads/linings) need to be able to float,if there sticky and gunge up they loose efficiency

these few problems when addressed, can make a dramatic difference in your braking

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Posted

IMO, Drilling rotors only lightens them - dont see why it would increase braking power - might even wear pads faster - but should run cooler for long braking runs

Drilled disc rotors,are in fact drilled for rain

so the brake linings do not hydroplane over the rotors which would cause total loss of braking

Floating rotor's, are specifically made to dissipate heat

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Posted

get rid of the 1/8 " line

exchange it for 1/4" line

it works much much better for pressure and that alone will increase the pressure

most Matco brake issues are do to the master cylinder not getting correct 2.5 to 1 ratio when depressing toe brakes

or actuating the brake assemble of the master/toe brake combo

Tow brakes have a complicated geometry,

and if not done right can seriously hamper the efficiency of the brakeing

If you were to take the line off the caliper

and hook a pressure gauge up in that spot you could gauge the amount of pressure when applying the brake

from there you could adjust the master cylinder toe brake set up to give more pressure

There is probably very few out there who can produce above 450 psi pressure

which is the minimum that is needed for the brakes to work optimum

At least as far as the Matco installation pamphlet I got from Matco states

450 psi is just enough pressure and is at the bottom of the scale of what is acceptable pressure

no lower than 450 psi and up to 600 psi

over 600 psi and you actually get caliper/brake pad problems such as,

caliper deflections that will reduce the torque increase

Also,making sure both brake lining pads move in and out correctly and freely/smoothly

if the one pad that rides(compared to the pad that the piston moves as it is a one piston caliper)

if the ride pad gets sticky,then right there your braking is decreased by 50%

the calipers(and pads/linings) need to be able to float,if there sticky and gunge up they loose efficiency

these few problems when addressed, can make a dramatic difference in your braking

I should point out that I designed and built the toe brakes that Joey is running on his plane. and if you want to lay into them they will wrap a 600 psi pressure guage.After his first landing gear and brake conversion, his comment to me was these things are super strong and I'm going to have to watch it and he has said somewhere on this site that he could literally stand his plane on its nose.This performance was achieved with 21 inch tires w-62 internal calipers and 1/8 inch brake line.I've only ever ran accross 2 people who could properly determine the leverage on an avid flyer toe braking system. One was George Happ and the other one was an individual who talked to George back in around 2002.Here is the link to Joey's original conversion from go cart to matco brakes.

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Posted

Drilled disc rotors,are in fact drilled for rain

so the brake linings do not hydroplane over the rotors which would cause total loss of braking

Floating rotor's, are specifically made to dissipate heat

I had never seen an ad that states "hydroplaning brakes", just that it lightens the weight, or cools them. Figured the centripital force would keep the water off of the disks.

Interesting theory - Thanks John

ED in MO

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Posted

I should point out that I designed and built the toe brakes that Joey is running on his plane.

Actually I realize that, as I read it above posted

and if you want to lay into them they will wrap a 600 psi pressure guage.After his first landing gear and brake conversion, his comment to me was these things are super strong and I'm going to have to watch it and he has said somewhere on this site that he could literally stand his plane on its nose.This performance was achieved with 21 inch tires w-62 internal calipers and 1/8 inch brake line.

If geometry is right,calipers/rotors and brake lining pads are in good shape

sure 1/8 inch line is suffice

1/4 inch line though,does in fact increase the pressure,

and I have this information from a very good source also

The key is,geometry in the tow brake assemble and master cylinder

Matco would agree totally with what I am saying

I've only ever ran accross 2 people who could properly determine the leverage on an avid flyer toe braking system.

Not sure how a statement like that should be interpenetrated.

is that an insult ?

One was George Happ and the other one was an individual who talked to George back in around 2002.

Is there honestly only two rocket scientists on Earth...

one named George and the other a man who talked to George... that could ever be able to do this ?

Come on, lol

I think someone should maybe get a Saw and cut out there doors to there house...

so they can get there swelled head through the door

Here is the link to Joey's original conversion from go cart to matco brakes.

Ya,I know

I read the entire thread awhile ago

Looks like I touched a nerve

Anyway I do not need to prove anything

so I will let you all carry on your conversation without me

Cheers

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Posted

I had never seen an ad that states "hydroplaning brakes", just that it lightens the weight, or cools them. Figured the centripital force would keep the water off of the disks.

Interesting theory - Thanks John

ED in MO

On the road, drilled or slotted discs still have a positive effect in wet conditions because the holes or slots prevent a film of water building up between the disc and the pads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake

When first disc's were drilled

they in fact were drilled to dissipate heat

but check out the motorcycle industry these days

The drilled rotors do dissipate heat,

but are really more there for improved braking in wet condition now a days

or with drilled and slotted rotors although they could be drilled or slotted or both

the slots being for water,and drilled holes for water and heat

Floating rotors:

They have drilled disc rotors for bikes

that "bolt" onto a Billet Aluminum hub... then the hub bolts to the wheel

Now the rotor heats up,but heat dissipates extremely quick through the Billet aluminum hub

as everyone knows... aluminum dissipates heat quicker than steel

They actually do not hard bolt the rotors to the billet hub

They have special inserts,between the rotor and the hub and the bolts go through the inserts

which bolts the hub to the rotor without actually connecting it directly to the hub

so yes drilled rotors were invented to dissipate heat,

but just turned out also to be beneficial in wet conditions

In the motorcycle industry

drilled rotors are mainly for wet riding conditions

and if serious high performance braking is required

then floating rotors are what is used

especially on Big Inch engines where braking could be extreme

I know ,I know

I said I was going to leave the discussion lol

just wanted to reply to Ed :)

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Posted (edited)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake

so yes drilled rotors were invented to dissipate heat,

but just turned out also to be beneficial in wet conditions

In the motorcycle industry

drilled rotors are mainly for wet riding conditions

and if serious high performance braking is required

then floating rotors are what is used

especially on Big Inch engines where braking could be extreme

I know ,I know

I said I was going to leave the discussion lol

just wanted to reply to Ed :)

You still ride those dangerous things? My HD mileage limit ran out years ago. Lots of stories there. My flying buddy showed up some years ago on a new hog to take me for a ride - I flatly told him I would fly with him anytime in anything, but would not ride to the end of the block with him on any bike.

Yes, I know all about car brakes and bike brakes being drilled - Do they drill out the floatplane brakes too? lol

So hot and dry here - wont worry about drilling disks - Had to put tents and cold IV bottles on the watermelon vines to keep the melons from going flat !!!!

Had to have the last word - Thanks

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Actually I realize that, as I read it above posted

If geometry is right,calipers/rotors and brake lining pads are in good shape

sure 1/8 inch line is suffice

1/4 inch line though,does in fact increase the pressure,

and I have this information from a very good source also

The key is,geometry in the tow brake assemble and master cylinder

Matco would agree totally with what I am saying

Not sure how a statement like that should be interpenetrated.

is that an insult ?

Is there honestly only two rocket scientists on Earth...

one named George and the other a man who talked to George... that could ever be able to do this ?

Come on, lol

I think someone should maybe get a Saw and cut out there doors to there house...

so they can get there swelled head through the door

Ya,I know

I read the entire thread awhile ago

Looks like I touched a nerve

Anyway I do not need to prove anything

so I will let you all carry on your conversation without me

Cheers

Amazing how the words we put on the internet can be totally misconstrewed. George Happ is the president of matco mfg but I'm thinking you already know that...I mention his name because he is a competent accredited engineer and the dozens of people who have emailed me telling me my leverage method is wrong or said the mc-4d master doesn't have enough leverage to meet that matco minimum requirement aren't.Near as I can tell you are not a part of that crowd.

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