Elevator Tube, Seat Belt, and Rudder Cable Clearance?

[RDavidson 183]

Hello,

Ran into my first question today...I installed the seats in my Avid Magnum to make sure they fit, and I'm glad I did because there are issues!

The seat frame is too close to the elevator tube. The Construction Manual says to bend the elevator push tube out of the way of the seat, how do I do this? the push tube is installed and the fuselage is covered.

Also, I can't figure out where the seat belt goes? Does it go from the low mount in between the rudder cable and the elevator tube? It looks tight.

I'm going to try to post pics.

Thanks, Ron

[EDMO 1078]

Hello,

Ran into my first question today...I installed the seats in my Avid Magnum to make sure they fit, and I'm glad I did because there are issues!

The seat frame is too close to the elevator tube. The Construction Manual says to bend the elevator push tube out of the way of the seat, how do I do this? the push tube is installed and the fuselage is covered.

Also, I can't figure out where the seat belt goes? Does it go from the low mount in between the rudder cable and the elevator tube? It looks tight.

I'm going to try to post pics.

Thanks, Ron

First thing I would try is to call Brett if you cant get an answer here. I have the manual, but if you have one, then mine wont help any more than yours. I'm Kitfox builder, so know very little except what Magnum manual says.

The Kitfox elevator tube is in the center instead of on the side like Avid. The seat belt tabs are low on the side of the airframe, and there isnt clearence to install the bolt after it is covered - this really is close to the cable, and cause problems with interference. The seatbelt bolt head is out toward the fabric, and should have a fiberglass disk epoxied to the head to prevent rubbing on fabric on mine.

ED in MO

P.S. If you cant install the seat belt bolt, then all you can do is cut a hole in the fabric and install it, and then patch the fabric - at least that is the way it is on my Kitfox.

ED in MO

Edited 13 Dec 2012 by Ed In Missouri

[dholly 718]

If your P/P tube is installed, depending on where you need it bent, perhaps unfastening each end will let move it fore/aft enough and maybe even rotate it into a position where you can put in slight bends as needed. If no, can you modify the seat frame or raise it slightly using mounting spacers?

[RDavidson 183]

If your P/P tube is installed, depending on where you need it bent, perhaps unfastening each end will let move it fore/aft enough and maybe even rotate it into a position where you can put in slight bends as needed. If no, can you modify the seat frame or raise it slightly using mounting spacers?

I think raising the seat would solve more than this one problem. However, I would have to cut the bushing holders and weld in a spacer. Is that what you are suggesting?

My Magnum seat slides on two bars is that how all Avids work?

Thanks,

Ron

[EDMO 1078]

I think raising the seat would solve more than this one problem. However, I would have to cut the bushing holders and weld in a spacer. Is that what you are suggesting?

My Magnum seat slides on two bars is that how all Avids work?

Thanks,

Ron

Dont think that any were that way before the Airdale, then Avid+, some were sling seats, some fiberglass ridgid like Kitfox. Doug Holly can answer better than I can.

ED in MO

[Av8r3400 1178]

First thing I would try is to call Brett if you cant get an answer here.

I don't think Brett will be of much help. He has none of the tooling or information on the Magnum or the Catalina/Amphib designs. All of this stuff was wisked away before Brett came into the picture with Avid/Airdale.

[EDMO 1078]

I don't think Brett will be of much help. He has none of the tooling or information on the Magnum or the Catalina/Amphib designs. All of this stuff was wisked away before Brett came into the picture with Avid/Airdale.

So..........Is there no support for the Magnum builders"

ED in MO

[Av8r3400 1178]

Between here and the Yahoo group is your best shot for support...

[akflyer 1427]

See if you can get ahold of ChrisB on here. He has a magnum and is VERY helpful at explaining things and getting pictures. There are a few guys lurking that I will continue to encourage to post up that have a lot of knowledge on these.

[dholly 718]

I think raising the seat would solve more than this one problem. However, I would have to cut the bushing holders and weld in a spacer. Is that what you are suggesting?

My Magnum seat slides on two bars is that how all Avids work?

Thanks,

Ron

G'morning Ron-

I have never had the opportunity to see the Magnum seating install up close and personal, so I'm not sure exactly what would be involved in raising the seat. Is your seating arrangement the same as the Airdale Flyer's sliding base? There is a pic in the 'New Airdale Build' thread located in the Fat Avid Forum. I'd really like to see some more pics of your setup. Even though my Avid+ seat backs are re-positionable fore/aft, the lower cushion is stationary. That is a vast improvement over the f/g pan and sling seats I had in my Avid Mk-IV, but I always wondered just how much effort it would take to fabricate up and add a seat rail system ala Magnum, Airdale Flyer, Highlander etc.

[RDavidson 183]

G'morning Ron-

I have never had the opportunity to see the Magnum seating install up close and personal, so I'm not sure exactly what would be involved in raising the seat. Is your seating arrangement the same as the Airdale Flyer's sliding base? There is a pic in the 'New Airdale Build' thread located in the Fat Avid Forum. I'd really like to see some more pics of your setup. Even though my Avid+ seat backs are re-positionable fore/aft, the lower cushion is stationary. That is a vast improvement over the f/g pan and sling seats I had in my Avid Mk-IV, but I always wondered just how much effort it would take to fabricate up and add a seat rail system ala Magnum, Airdale Flyer, Highlander etc.

I will definitely post some pics for you this weekend.

I posted the same question in the yahoo group, and I was told to add a 1" spacer on the aft attach point of the seat rails. This should solve the control cable and tube conflict.

I will post pics of the seat adjustment system and the modification for the next guy, in the Magnum folder but I'll put a link here.

Thanks,

Ron

[RDavidson 183]

I will definitely post some pics for you this weekend.

I posted the same question in the yahoo group, and I was told to add a 1" spacer on the aft attach point of the seat rails. This should solve the control cable and tube conflict.

I will post pics of the seat adjustment system and the modification for the next guy, in the Magnum folder but I'll put a link here.

Thanks,

Ron

Here are some better pics...

I removed the seat and placed a block of wood under the left seat rail so I can make a template for the spacers that will hold the aft end of the rail exactly one inch higher. I hope that will be enough to keep the seat away from the elevator tube.

I still don't know how the seatbelt is supposed to be routed. I really think something is not in the right place, but there really are no directions for seatbelt routing s far as I know.

Thanks,

Ron

[EDMO 1078]

Here are some better pics...

I removed the seat and placed a block of wood under the left seat rail so I can make a template for the spacers that will hold the aft end of the rail exactly one inch higher. I hope that will be enough to keep the seat away from the elevator tube.

I still don't know how the seatbelt is supposed to be routed. I really think something is not in the right place, but there really are no directions for seatbelt routing s far as I know.

Thanks,

Ron

Try the seatbelt with the pads in place and across your belly - you might need to make an aluminum guard if things still rub - Be thankful we are not factory built - so you can do whatever works.

ED in MO

[RDavidson 183]

Try the seatbelt with the pads in place and across your belly - you might need to make an aluminum guard if things still rub - Be thankful we are not factory built - so you can do whatever works.

ED in MO

Well, I made 1" spacers and installed them on the pilots side. It did not completely solve the problem, but I am able to use the front 3 adjustment position with no conflict of the seat and push pull tube/ rudder cable. This is actually fine because The last two positions are uncomfortable and unrealistic, so I will make a hard stop there. I think a 1.5" spacer would allow for all of the positions without conflict, but because of my height I can't raise it any higher.

Here are some pics of the spacers and a comparison of the pilot seat with spacers and the passenger without. Notice I used a bushing on the bottom bolt to avoid crushing the welded tabs.

Thanks for all the ideas!

[RDavidson 183]

Well, I made 1" spacers and installed them on the pilots side. It did not completely solve the problem, but I am able to use the front 3 adjustment position with no conflict of the seat and push pull tube/ rudder cable. This is actually fine because The last two positions are uncomfortable and unrealistic, so I will make a hard stop there. I think a 1.5" spacer would allow for all of the positions without conflict, but because of my height I can't raise it any higher.

Here are some pics of the spacers and a comparison of the pilot seat with spacers and the passenger without. Notice I used a bushing on the bottom bolt to avoid crushing the welded tabs.

Thanks for all the ideas!

Ok...back after it now that the new year is underway.

Someone brought up a point about the bars I raised up with spacers being a structural part of the bungee truss, and that I might be weakening the truss with my spacers. So, I went back to the drawing board!

First, I removed the spacers and went back to the original attach points.

Second, I looked at the bolt head that was creating clearance issues and saw that where it attaches to the seat I could remove about about 1/4" of the bushing that it goes through. This pulled the bolt head in and out of the way of the push pull tube.

Third, I stated working on the seatbelt issue. I decided to put a longer bolt in with a bushing holding the seatbelt mount further inside the aircraft, avoiding conflict with the rudder cable. Then I routed the seatbelt between the framework of the bottom of the seat and the left side seat bracket.

Don't worry, I'm attaching pictures...

I think this is the best solution, without cutting and welding on the factory seat frames.