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"FOXY FLAPPER" FOTOS

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Posted (edited)

Got my scratchbuilt Modified Kitfox Klone fuselage and tailfeathers back from blasting and painting today.

Posting some photos while it is still on the truck.

Showing overall, dorsal fin and enlarged Vertical stabilizer and extended cabin width, raising cabin roof, baggage door mods, horizontal stabilizer attach tubes like Piper, reinforced landing gear attach structure, nose gear attach, modified enlarged rudder and one of two identical enlarged elevators, all to be balanced.

ED in MO

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Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

blink.gif Whoa, you got a lot going on there Ed.

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Posted (edited)

blink.gif Whoa, you got a lot going on there Ed.

Only 16 years of study and pulling my hair out - miles and miles of travel - 2 wives - 5 houses - second time to build this one without ever flying it - and what the hell am I going to do next! :lol: Dont forget the wing rebuild and the extended leading edges, and the flaps -

Maybe JATO?

Merry Christmas,

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

wow, there is alot going on there! Looks like alot of structure was cut out, then alot more added back in. Did you keep track of the tubes removed, versus the tubes put back to see what kind of a net weight gain you have? A few shots of it once out of the truck and on the horses may make it easier to see what all you have going on there. I am sure you will do a build thread so we can see your progress on this one!

:BC:

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Posted (edited)

wow, there is alot going on there! Looks like alot of structure was cut out, then alot more added back in. Did you keep track of the tubes removed, versus the tubes put back to see what kind of a net weight gain you have? A few shots of it once out of the truck and on the horses may make it easier to see what all you have going on there. I am sure you will do a build thread so we can see your progress on this one!

:BC:/>/>/>/>/>/>

Winter coming here tonight - fuselage is stored until I get the wings finished - Was asking about empty fuselage standard weight because I think mine is a little heavy - If wife wont go on diet, then may have to cut some tubes, although it probably wont save 5 lbs. Maybe this will end up being the "Commuter Fox" one guy was asking about flying across Florida in? Engine is heavy - Grove gear is heavy - add in nose gear and big heater - boat seats - heavy wings - may have to quit hauling booze in extra tanks, or add more engines! I've got a model Ford Tri-motor.....

Dont think tail will shake like factory-built!

I will try to post progress - or regress! Going to weigh it when it comes out of winter storage. Wish someone had weighed the factory ones barebones. Maybe next time I talk to John or Debra at Kitfox?

This was built as a copy of KF2, but rebuilt with heavier crosstubes and longerons and cabin bottom/landing gear supports, nose gear supports, bigger tail, all add weight, but needed to go from 950 gross to 1320 - probably to be flown at about 1100 most of the time.

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted (edited)

wow, there is alot going on there! Looks like alot of structure was cut out, then alot more added back in. Did you keep track of the tubes removed, versus the tubes put back to see what kind of a net weight gain you have? A few shots of it once out of the truck and on the horses may make it easier to see what all you have going on there. I am sure you will do a build thread so we can see your progress on this one!

:BC:/>/>/>

Dont think you would see any more on horses than I have shown here - except that I have dual engine mounts - one for the Rotax and one for Soob. Front end has been flattened and reinforced for heavier engine and nose gear.

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted (edited)

ChrisB,

      I am trying to catch up with you on the nose gear.  Here is a photo I took today of my idea of a castoring, 600x6 nose wheel - I could always convert it to be steerable if I am not happy with it.

- I don't have the bushings installed, and need to hang about 250 pounds of concrete blocks on the nose to know where to cut the pivot tube and spring - or get different spring.  Plane is now sitting on 3 legs - I have about 51 inches between main and nose wheel axles - If I have to turn my offset Grove main gear around for balance I will have more distance to nose gear.  When I get my wing struts tacked, the plane goes back to the welder to add side braces from nose outer pivot tube to outside lower corners under edge of firewall, sort of like Tri-Pacer.

 

Added:  Forgot that later I will add the nosewheel fender off of a Tri-Pacer, to keep mud and dirt off of plane and maybe belly radiator.   The fork I am using was sold as "homemade", but looks more like a 200 series Cessna.

It is not a Tri-Pacer fork - I have a Tri-Pacer gear and mount or two stored away.

 

Do you think that if I tell the inspector that the modified streamline tubing strut and mounting are mountain bike frame parts I got out of the trash dumpster, that he will count it as "homemade"? 

It sure beats the Kitfox price of $1500 by a lot.

EdMO

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Edited by Ed In Missouri
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Posted

Hi Ed,

 

That looks promising, but from my experimentation with large tailwheels on my Magnum you WILL need some pretty significant dampening or that large castering nosetwheel will shimmy like the dickens! I doubt a shimmying nosewheel would be as forgiving as a shimmying tailwheel, and a badly shimmying tailwheel can be frightening.

 

I am using my legs as the damping on my design by making it steerable with positive linkage to both pedals. My feet should act as dampeners to prevent shimmy.

 

The castering wheel that came with my plane originally uses belliville washers to establish a damping pre-load. I can take a picture of my own if you like to see how RV did it, but they don't use a spring like you, which would complicate adding damping.

 

Also curious what bushings you intend to use as radial loads will be significant while the suspension is pumping.

 

I LOVE all that travel as long as it doesn't result in prop too close to ground when hitting a big bump in the road. Wish mine had more travel.

 

Chris

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Posted (edited)

Chris,

     I have some Belleville washers.   One guy with castoring gear on Avid or Kitfox stated that he added centering springs to each side of nosefork and stopped the shimmy problem.   I also have a shimmy dampner that I could use if I put new seals in it.  As I said, I can make it steerable if needed.

What is not clear in the photo is the 5 degree angle that the pivot tube should make when loaded.

     The Cessna steering rods are spring-loaded, and that might help too.

     I appreciate your comments - about all of my flying is now on pavement and short grass - time will tell.

Oilite bushings top and bottom - cheap to replace at $5 each.

     I probably wont have all that travel once I put the Soob in front, full tanks, and 170 lbs in the seat...

 Learned a long time  ago to drag the tail as much as practical, after fighting a shimmy on the 150 nose!

Thanks,

EdMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Oil lite bronze is the perfect bushing material I think and should work great.

I am pretty sure that if you intend to have it caster without positive steering control it will need significant damping! :-)

My original MKIV had springs to "center" the factory milk stool nose wheel. it was a castering affair that worked pretty well but had no suspension except the tire. It did not ever shimmy on me, but there was a fair amount of resistance (damping) due to the bushings in the nose wheel weldment. Steering was not positive in both directions like my new setup. It had a single steering arm from one pedal to the nose wheel axle that compensated for p factor on takeoff and had two centering springs to keep it pointed straight during flight.

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Posted

Thanks for the info Chris,

      If I have problems, then a few welds will make it steerable.   My book says, "the nose wheel should need about 20 pounds of force on the edge of the tire tread to turn it without it being on the ground" - will do some testing later.

EdMO

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Posted

Hi Ed,

 

Wow 20 LB is a lot of damping (resistance)! Pretty sure it will never shimmy if you can get that kind of resistance.

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Posted (edited)

Chris,

    Do you have info on the Magnum lower strut cross brace tubes location?  I have tried to ask Ron, but no reply.

    I've got a set of rubber pucks and washers left from my Ercoupe - that's another possibility for the nose gear.

Thanks,

EdMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Hi Ed,

 

Magnum uses a different engine mount for Tri gear than tail wheel. For the most part the Magnum nose wheel is part of the engine mount. There is a bracket piece that attaches to the firewall when running tri gear on a Magnum but I have never seen that or a tri gear motor mount for Magnum. I've never even seen a factory tri gear Magnum, so I really don't know what it looks like or how it works.

 

My Magnum is tail wheel.

 

Chris

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Posted

"TWO OLD MEN AND A TRUCK - Ha!"

Trying to set up wing to make wing struts - Short people should not try this at home!

We gave up and decided that the landing gear has to come off first.

     "The upside-down nosewheel"?   After a painful encounter between the nose strut and my leg, I decided to put the nosewheel on as a rubber-bumper so it didn't happen again.

      "Lesson learned" - Well, at least it was a learning experience, and not a disaster, as it could have been.

Regrouping to try again another time - Posting Foto.

EdMO

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Posted

Nice! you plane is on the way, I like your retractable nose gear!

 

Regards

Dimi3

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Posted

so did you have to take the wife to the ER after she damn near died laughing at ya as she was taking pictures of the goat rope going on below the deck?  :lmao:

 

Fitting the wings can be a pain if you dont have enough help, but I give you an A+ for the effort and creativity!!

 

:BC:

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Posted (edited)

Here is what you need to put the wings on fairly easy.  I've put wings on a bunch of planes by myself using them.   The scary part is lifting them up on to the stands by your self and worrying about dropping one and messing it up.  Jim Chuk

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Edited by Jim Chuk

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Posted

Thanks for the photos Jim.  We are both old and short, and my wings are heavier than most.   Going to plan B after I get the landing gear off.   These wings have never been on the plane since it was modified, and the wings were modified, and I got a lot older!

EDMO

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Posted

Get a couple buddies over! Don't build another space shuttle! Cheers gentlemen. B

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Posted (edited)

Unfortunately, when you get my age, your buddies are dead, dying, or in a wheelchair or nursing home - the next generation is too busy working or have moved away- My ex-mother-in-law turned 101 in August, and lost all of her friends and family years ago - My Grandmother buried her husband and all 3 of her children by the time she was 92.

My next-door neighbor helped me build my deck 10 years ago - he died last week at age of 83 after being paralyzed for the last 6 years by a stroke.

sad, but just a fact of life.  I am thankful that my flying buddy of the last 50 years is still able to help me - he is 77.

Someday, my bird, or my projects, parts, and tools will all be for sale.......We all live on limited time, and never know when that time will end.

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Ed, I appreciate all your post's. I look forward to reading this forum and specifically the postings of the long time members as yourself. I'm just a greenhorn compared to yourself and others on here. I didn't mean any offense. I get what you say about you only get so many days. Knowing the stakes are high every time you fly makes it interesting. Makes those special days. Cheers. B

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Posted

IFMT,

     I never take offense when others write - even when they disagree with me - and you just made a valid suggestion.

   I am thankful that I have the opportunity to talk to over 900 on this site - and I wish that more of them would join in and write something.

     The older ones here can celebrate their years of learning and still learn from others, and the younger ones can look forward to more years of learning and advances of technology.

Good Flying,

EDMO

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Posted

Strange rib spaceing"??????????

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Posted (edited)

Needed room between tanks to access fittings.

Strange Plane too!   :lol:

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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