Going Ivo IFA

[1avidflyer 1983]

Joey, glad it's working out for you! Just wondering what your EGTs are doing, and how you are manageing them. When you were getting the 1500 FPM climb rate, what RPM were you turning? Thanks, Jim Chuk

I put an hour on the prop today and all I can say is WOW!! For starters a vibration I have had since the first time I flew this airplane is GONE. The Ivo is WAY smoother than the Warp. I saw climb rates I have never seen with my airplane today that were pushing 1500fpm. After putting in the pitch in straight and level I picked up 15mph. You can feel it accelerate when bumping in the pitch. I am VERY happy with this set up!!

[Guest]

I put an hour on the prop today and all I can say is WOW!! For starters a vibration I have had since the first time I flew this airplane is GONE. The Ivo is WAY smoother than the Warp. I saw climb rates I have never seen with my airplane today that were pushing 1500fpm. After putting in the pitch in straight and level I picked up 15mph. You can feel it accelerate when bumping in the pitch. I am VERY happy with this set up!!

Great News Joey!

I am not at all surprised at your "WOW" about climb performance, but the increased top speed is amazing too! I did not see that much of an increase in top speed myself, but that is probably because the fixed pitch I had before the IFA was more of a cruise prop.

I found the IVO to be the smoothest prop I ever ran.

Now, don't forget to go the extra mile and set up your limits. IMHO they will help keep you out of trouble if the motor should ever fail!

Also keep an eye on the EGT's! You will be using the mixture control more. Also don't forget to check the telltale tape and re torque frequently till it sets in.

Awesome!

ChrisB

[horsepower 24]

Nice going Joey,What kind of cruise speed do you have now and what are your climbout RPMs.Im assuming you didn't pickup 15 MPH over your old prop but is it going to make your Idaho trip a little more forgiving?Randy

[C5Engineer 1170]

I was worried about my EGT's with the prop flattened out but I guess the extra RPM pumps enough gas through the mains to keep them in check. They were running pretty close to where they were before on takeoff. I tried a few different climbouts and found I was getting the best climb rate at 64-6500. I did put a couple washers in before I started and I hit the climb side perfect. If I hold the switch until the motor stalls out I get right at 6800 on takeoff. It's amazing how fast the engine winds up at that setting!! As soon as she breaks ground bump the switch once or twice to bring it back down to 6500 and away you go! At 50mph I was seeing over 1000fpm sustained and touched 1500 a couple times. I've never been able to sustain over a 1000 before. I was super light and it was cool here at Sea Level but that's still pretty awesome I was grinning from ear to ear. The 582 just even sounds sweet at 6700 vs 62 or 63.

Chris I had my warp pitched as a climb prop. One degree on the warp was close about 5-8mph on the top end. I was only getting 75-80 IAS before. Yesterday I left it wide open and pitched it for about 6200 and I things starting getting loud and when I looked up my airspeed was buried at 100mph. I think I should be able to cruise close to 85-90 at a reasonable power setting and pitch. I still need to figure out where I want it for cruise so that I'm not overloading the motor and then pull the prop and measure where the spool is and set the course limit. I was able to pull the motor down to 5800 for a second when I held the switch at full throttle which is WAY more pitch than I need.

The Hacman compliments the IFA nicely. I can't wait to take it up to altitude and do a couple of cruise phases and really get a feel for it. With it flattened out coming down final is cool too. The airplane responds instantly to power corrections. I'm also totally impressed at how much smoother it runs. Getting rid of that vibration was worth the swap in itself.

[C5Engineer 1170]

Did some more testing today. It's amazing how much changing the pitch effects these engines. I'm still searching for a spot on the cruise where I feel I'm not running the engine too hard. Just because it's not turning up a bunch of RPM doesn't mean it's not working hard. According to Ivo your supposed to pitch it until you can just barely climb. That puts a huge load on the motor with an Avid. I pitched it today for 6400 rpm in WOT level flight and I was still able to climb at 500ft/min.

I have the takeoff setting shacked. Run it till the voltmeter bogs and then go the other way for a blip and I hit 6700 on the initial power push. As soon as I break ground blip it twice more to settle in at 6400 and a killer climb rate. Level off and hold her wide open and keep adding pitch till it settles into around 6500. One thing I found when doing this at first was I wasn't keeping it wide open long enough and allowing the speed to keep building. As the speed builds so does the RPM. Leni the first few times I was like 6500 max level RPM sucks in cruise but the longer I held it the more and more pitch I put in until I was pushing 100 mph. Once it finally stopped I backed it the throttle off to 5800 leaned it a little and was seeing about a 5-10 mph increase in cruise. Not as significant as I originally thought after doing some 5-10 minute cruise periods. Still any improvement is better than none. Of course today my fuel flow gauge decided to throw a fit which it does every so often and read zero or less than a gallon per hour so I didn't get any good fuel burn info.

My question for Herman, Chris, Bryce, and Leni....When I go over the Sierras I have to climb from Sea Level to 9500ft. If I leave from my buddies place you have to do this in about 35 miles. Before when I could pull 6200 on takeoff I would leave my power at about 6000 for the first 45 minutes or so getting a dismal climb rate when heavy. I dont' like the idea of running at 6400 rpm continuously for a long time to get the really good climb rates I been seeing after takeoff.

Think it's better to pitch for 6400 and pull the throttle back or pitch a little courser, pick up some speed and load it up more to bring the RPM down? Water temp cooling is never an issue with my plane. Making metal and the fan stopping is an issue with EVERY plane!

[C5Engineer 1170]

Enough technical BS... Yup it works..Shot this today after I got bored as hell flying straight and level. I updated my log book today after a few flights and I also broke 1000 logged landings today!!

[saskavid 47]

Enough technical BS... Yup it works..Shot this today after I got bored as hell flying straight and level. I updated my log book today after a few flights and I also broke 1000 logged landings today!! :angeldevil:/>

thousand landings huh. All I can say is wow!Dependable braking probably played some part in at least a few of them .So how quiet is that ivo in comparison to the warp?to me the first time I heard an ivo I was standing outside of the plane, andwhen he opened it up it sounded like a weed whipper on steriods.

[C5Engineer 1170]

Mike it's definitely quieter inflight. The airplane/engine while flying sounds totally different. Took some getting used to. Still love my brake set up.

[Guest]

Enough technical BS... Yup it works..Shot this today after I got bored as hell flying straight and level. I updated my log book today after a few flights and I also broke 1000 logged landings today!! :angeldevil:/>/>

Yahoo! What fun!

At high altitude when my 582 could be operated at full throttle and not exceed approx 75% of its power, I would set the prop to run at 6000 and just run wide open and lean it to get egt's as high as I could, (usually in the 1100's because I limited max leaning by choosing a large reference orifice in the mixture control). At high altitude the plane was pretty anemic, especially on a high density altitude day. Even at 6000 RPM full throttle in level flight, the nose would seem a bit high and the 582 would hum along putting out barely enough power to keep the plane in the air and run so quietly and smooth it was erie.

One time I took it up over 14,000 feet just long enough to get there. It took a long time to get there and it was actually creepy how quiet, smooth and anemic the engine was!

ChrisB

Edited 15 Mar 2013 by ChrisB

[BryceKat 125]

Did some more testing today. It's amazing how much changing the pitch effects these engines. I'm still searching for a spot on the cruise where I feel I'm not running the engine too hard. Just because it's not turning up a bunch of RPM doesn't mean it's not working hard. According to Ivo your supposed to pitch it until you can just barely climb. That puts a huge load on the motor with an Avid. I pitched it today for 6400 rpm in WOT level flight and I was still able to climb at 500ft/min.

I have the takeoff setting shacked. Run it till the voltmeter bogs and then go the other way for a blip and I hit 6700 on the initial power push. As soon as I break ground blip it twice more to settle in at 6400 and a killer climb rate. Level off and hold her wide open and keep adding pitch till it settles into around 6500. One thing I found when doing this at first was I wasn't keeping it wide open long enough and allowing the speed to keep building. As the speed builds so does the RPM. Leni the first few times I was like 6500 max level RPM sucks in cruise but the longer I held it the more and more pitch I put in until I was pushing 100 mph. Once it finally stopped I backed it the throttle off to 5800 leaned it a little and was seeing about a 5-10 mph increase in cruise. Not as significant as I originally thought after doing some 5-10 minute cruise periods. Still any improvement is better than none. Of course today my fuel flow gauge decided to throw a fit which it does every so often and read zero or less than a gallon per hour so I didn't get any good fuel burn info.

My question for Herman, Chris, Bryce, and Leni....When I go over the Sierras I have to climb from Sea Level to 9500ft. If I leave from my buddies place you have to do this in about 35 miles. Before when I could pull 6200 on takeoff I would leave my power at about 6000 for the first 45 minutes or so getting a dismal climb rate when heavy. I dont' like the idea of running at 6400 rpm continuously for a long time to get the really good climb rates I been seeing after takeoff.

Think it's better to pitch for 6400 and pull the throttle back or pitch a little courser, pick up some speed and load it up more to bring the RPM down? Water temp cooling is never an issue with my plane. Making metal and the fan stopping is an issue with EVERY plane!

Joey,

That's one of those things you'll have to play around with. I don't like running over 6200 for more than a minute. You can always leave wot and back the rpm down w/ the prop if you need to. I like to think of this like riding a ten speed bike. Your the engine. What gear(read pitch rpm load) do you want to ride in considering the terrain, speed, distance, slope, energy burn, etc. have fun with it Bryce

[akflyer 1427]

Just a little food for thought.. You can run the EGTS down to under 800 by loading the engine up with the prop (overloading it) then you lean it out by watching EGTS.... Especially for you guys running premix, when you lean the mixture out, your also taking oil away from that engine, under a VERY heavy load. I wont tell you not to, but I damn sure wont be loading my 2 stroke up like that unless I feel like practicing dead stick landings without the comfort of being able to fire the engine back up if I miss judge the glide path. I would be hesitant to prop it for turning less than 63-6400 WOT straight and level. Your mileage may vary and advice is worth what you just paid for it I can tell you first hand how long it takes for the pilot cooling fan to quit turning when dont get enough oil to the right places in your engine!

[6320012s 12]

Leni,

What Pitch Ivo are you using? 18"-53 or 35"-70"?   And what do those numbers correspond to?

[akflyer 1427]

I am using the 18-53.  That is the minimum and maximum pitch range.  If you use the high pitch blades, you will burn up the electric motors left n right because of the torque needed to flatten out the blades enough to get your RPM.. I went through 4 electric motors before I figured that out.. 

 

[C5Engineer 1170]

I always blip my switch as a test when I taxi out and watch the voltmeter move letting me know my prop is working. Today was no different. I poured the coals to her and something just didn't sound quite right. Climbing away I realized I was only turning 5800 rpm and climbing at 500fpm. Held the switch to flatten it out thinking I had screwed up my before takeoff setting and nothing. I opted to fly straight ahead to 200ft and then make an expeditious trip around the pattern because at that point I thought for a few moments that perhaps my engine wasn't making full power. After a guy on downwind whined that he was right over me I had to throw out there I was having a malfunction and putting my bird back on the ground NOW. The radio got quiet after that and I was back on the parking ramp 30 seconds later. A quick test after shutdown confirmed my suspicions that the prop wasn't working. 

 

My whole goal for going out today was to burn as much mogas out of her as possible to minimize what I have to drain out and basically throw away after I put the bird away for 6 months for my sandbox tour. After some thought and pulling the spinner off to take a peek at the electric motor I said screw it and went flying. I was getting about 6000 on takeoff after I let the speed build some and climbed out flatter so it wasn't too bad. I was still climbing at 6-700fpm just not a 1000+ like usual. After a nice 1 hr cruise I was playing with the prop on the ground again and it is making a weird clicking sound up by the motor like it's trying to go. I didn't have my toolbox with me so troubleshooting was limited and I needed to get over to the flight school to preflight the 172 I rented to take up my family. I'll post more next week when I go out to drain the gas and pickle it. Pretty sure either it's bound up or something in the motor or gears is shot. I have the old style motor so if that's the case I'm out $300+ for a new assembly. Oh well she was fun while she lasted. I knew it would happen eventually based on others experiences. 

[hansd 1]

Tested my new IFA Ivo prop yesterday.

 

Wauw!

 

Avid Flyer B stol

582 with B gearbox

 

Previous prop: Peery PXP 71x37 two blade

New prop: Ivo 72" two blade

 

Previous speeds:

55 kt @ 5300 RPM, 13l/h

65 kt @ 6000 rpm, 18-20 l/h

 

 

New speeds:

55kt @ 4800 RPM 10 l/h

65kt @ 5500 RPM 13 l/h

70kt @ 5500 RPM 20 l/h

 

 

I am now able to get up to VNE (78 kt) at WOT, I was not able to reach such speeds with the old prop without overrevving.

 

I will most likely be cruising at 65 kt

 

 

Numbers verified in calm conditions with fuel computer and GPS

 

I now consider my old prop as driftwood.

 

//hans

Edited 12 Sep 2014 by hansd

[6320012s 12]

Did you get the ultralight prop or the medium?

[hansd 1]

Ultralight, seems easier on my gearbox and wallet

Edited 14 Sep 2014 by hansd

[LORENZ 9]

Im trying to wrap my head around an IFA prop VS WhirlWind as a percentage in order to justify the complexity of the wiring and the fidling in flight.  I'm going to be running the 670 with 92hp vs your guys 582 and 65hp.  I also have an AeroBat with a Vne of 150mph.  She weighs in at 568lbs

 

1) At take off and full power climb am I looking at 10-15% better performance or less?

2) At cruise what kind of % better performance will I likely see? An extra 10mph

3) GPH performance when pitched to perfection at cruise? 1/2 gallon or less?

4) My guess is that 30% extra HP of the 670 may negate the benifits of an IFA to were it's not worth the $ and extra complexity.  I get to run a much lower RPM as it sits compared to the 582 to make the same power which effects the GPH tremendously.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 28 Feb 2016 by LORENZ

[LORENZ 9]

Rotax 670:   5200rpm 65hp

 

Rotax 582:   6800rpm 65hp

 

[allonsye 85]

Mercotac model we used.

http://www.mercotac.com/html/205.html

Chris et all -

I'm unable to visualize how the Mercotac connector can be adapted to the IVO IFA setup. Can you or anyone elaborate?

[Guest]

This is from my iPhone. I haven't been on the site for a while because it is now blocked at work and I'm not on the computer much  at home

The mercotac is coaxially mounted on the engine compartment side of the hollow drive shaft. You have to build a little plug that fits into the drive shaft that precisely centers the mercotac. Then you make another piece that stops the other end of the mercotac shaft from turning so you can attach the stationary wires to it. It basically uses RCA connectors on each end. Hope this makes sense. It is really hard typing on this iPhone.

Edited 27 Sep 2016 by Chris Bolkan

[allonsye 85]

This is from my iPhone. I haven't been on the site for a while because it is now blocked at work and I'm not on the computer much  at home

The mercotac is coaxially mounted on the engine compartment side of the hollow drive shaft. You have to build a little plug that fits into the drive shaft that precisely centers the mercotac. Then you make another piece that stops the other end of the mercotac shaft from turning so you can attach the stationary wires to it. It basically uses RCA connectors on each end. Hope this makes sense. It is really hard typing on this iPhone.

Chris  -

Thanks for the reply.  Yet another reason I should invest in a small lathe. I can see creating those "plugs" you're referring to out of aluminum or nylon bar stock.  I'm still puzzled beyond that how you'd get power to the prop hub and to the motor.  Seems to me you still need to use the brush on hub set up.

I'm tiring of my vintage set up burning motors up.  I really need to do the full monty on this replete with amp meter.  

Paul

Edited 28 Sep 2016 by allonsye

[Av8r_Sed 82]

Is anyone running the Mercotac 250-HS with a medium IVO IFA?  I'm concerned its 4 Amp rating is a little dainty to go with the gear motor on the medium.  Also, does anyone know an economical way to purchase one?  Most listings I find have you email for a quote.  I know that's code for big bucks at quantity one.