Mark IV For Sale

117 posts in this topic

Posted

Hi all, not sure if I am posting this correctly, just joined the forum. I am looking to purchase my first Avid/Kitfox and have found one on barnstormers that I really like.

http://barnstormers.com/listing.php?id=711723

It really seems like a solid aircraft and I've been talking to the owner getting information. Apparently useful load is only 407 or 470, don't remember which one but I'm assuming from the Subaru EA81 Stratus engine being heavier then the Rotax.

Is anyone familiar with this particular aircraft or with the builder/owner? It seems to be highly modified by Airdale and I have attempted to contact Airdale multiple times with no success.

Overall seems to be very clean and solid. Let me know what you guys think, I may be putting a deposit on it until I can go take a look at it and get a feel for it.

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Posted (edited)

Hi all, not sure if I am posting this correctly, just joined the forum. I am looking to purchase my first Avid/Kitfox and have found one on barnstormers that I really like.

http://barnstormers.com/listing.php?id=711723

It really seems like a solid aircraft and I've been talking to the owner getting information. Apparently useful load is only 407 or 470, don't remember which one but I'm assuming from the Subaru EA81 Stratus engine being heavier then the Rotax.

Is anyone familiar with this particular aircraft or with the builder/owner? It seems to be highly modified by Airdale and I have attempted to contact Airdale multiple times with no success.

Overall seems to be very clean and solid. Let me know what you guys think, I may be putting a deposit on it until I can go take a look at it and get a feel for it.

If it has the stretch by Airdale, then you are getting a better plane. The Soob is a good. long-lasting, low maintenance engine, IMO. Airdale is almost imposible to talk to, but lots of Avid owners on here to help. Most are Rotax drivers, but a few Soobs too. Other than length of wings and landing gear, condition is most important thing to look for - and past history.

ED in MO

P.S. Welcome to the crowd - Lots of good conversations and info here. where are you located?

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

If it has the stretch by Airdale, then you are getting a better plane. The Soob is a good. long-lasting, low maintenance engine, IMO. Airdale is almost imposible to talk to, but lots of Avid owners on here to help. Most are Rotax drivers, but a few Soobs too. Other than length of wings and landing gear, condition is most important thing to look for - and past history.

ED in MO

P.S. Welcome to the crowd - Lots of good conversations and info here. where are you located?

Boone, NC. The aircraft is in Wyoming. It seems like a solid aircraft, hopefully I will get to drive out there in 2 weeks or so. Any purchasing advice? Any particular things to inspect and look for?

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Posted (edited)

Boone, NC. The aircraft is in Wyoming. It seems like a solid aircraft, hopefully I will get to drive out there in 2 weeks or so. Any purchasing advice? Any particular things to inspect and look for?

I am sure you will get some good advice on here from the Avid drivers - There are builders and flyers on here that have years of flying the Avids.

I'm a Kitfox type - But I watched Airdale #1 being built in Alaska - Have learned a lot from the Avid guys on here. I have both Avid and Fox manuals.

Ed in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Boone, NC. The aircraft is in Wyoming. It seems like a solid aircraft, hopefully I will get to drive out there in 2 weeks or so. Any purchasing advice? Any particular things to inspect and look for?

I live in Casper, WY and would be happy to look at it with you if I am free to do so. Let me know when you plan on being there and I will see what I can do.

Paul

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Posted

Weren't we just talking about wing folding issues with a plane that had a dorsal fin added on it? Wonder if that is an issue at all here? If I remember right, the flaperon counterweights ran into the added fin area. Just something to think about. Did you by any chance see that Kitfox 4 in Kansas about a month ago? It had a 912, low time, guy was asking $22,000 for it. He had bought it to learn how to fly, and it was to much for him. He bought an Ercoupe, and had one plane to many. That one had the wheels turning in my mind. I had talked to the guy's flight instructor, and he told me about the plane. He was really impressed with it. It probably sold quick, but if it didn't, it would be worth looking into. Closer too! Another topic: Ed, you said you saw an early Avid being built in Alaska. Did that plane by any chance belong to a guy named Jim Haney? Poor guy, brought it back to Mn, about half done, but got cancer and passed away before he could finish it. A flying buddy of mine ended up buying it, and finished it. I never met Jim Haney, he must have been quite a guy, he was on at least one of the expeditions that dug out the Glacier Gal P 38 in Greenland, and he also had something to do with the Global Explorer Dean Wilson designed. Take care, Jim Chuk

I live in Casper, WY and would be happy to look at it with you if I am free to do so. Let me know when you plan on being there and I will see what I can do.

Paul

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Posted

I live in Casper, WY and would be happy to look at it with you if I am free to do so. Let me know when you plan on being there and I will see what I can do.

Paul

There you are - Lucky you - Got an owner willing to help in wyoming.

Good Luck,

ED in MO

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Posted

Weren't we just talking about wing folding issues with a plane that had a dorsal fin added on it? Wonder if that is an issue at all here? If I remember right, the flaperon counterweights ran into the added fin area. Just something to think about. Did you by any chance see that Kitfox 4 in Kansas about a month ago? It had a 912, low time, guy was asking $22,000 for it. He had bought it to learn how to fly, and it was to much for him. He bought an Ercoupe, and had one plane to many. That one had the wheels turning in my mind. I had talked to the guy's flight instructor, and he told me about the plane. He was really impressed with it. It probably sold quick, but if it didn't, it would be worth looking into. Closer too! Another topic: Ed, you said you saw an early Avid being built in Alaska. Did that plane by any chance belong to a guy named Jim Haney? Poor guy, brought it back to Mn, about half done, but got cancer and passed away before he could finish it. A flying buddy of mine ended up buying it, and finished it. I never met Jim Haney, he must have been quite a guy, he was on at least one of the expeditions that dug out the Glacier Gal P 38 in Greenland, and he also had something to do with the Global Explorer Dean Wilson designed. Take care, Jim Chuk

So the guy with the KF4 is now learning to fly all over again in an Ercoupe - Good Luck to him.

The guy who built the Airdale #1 was not Jim Haney. This guy finished his.

ED in MO

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Posted

I live in Casper, WY and would be happy to look at it with you if I am free to do so. Let me know when you plan on being there and I will see what I can do.

Paul

Definitely may take you up on that. I'm not sure what town it is in, but I was planning on heading that way on the 26th or so. It's about a 3 day drive, maybe 4.

The dorsal fin shouldn't be an issue, I have pictures of it loaded on the trailer with the wings folded.

I'm going to look at a kitfox iv - 1200 with a rotax 582 next Monday. The panel is beautiful, best I have seen, but I hate 2 strokes in general. Not sure I feel comfortable flying with one. I can really appreciate the higher gross weight of the kitfox, the avid is definitely lacking in that department.

Link to the kitfox

http://www.barnstormers.com/listing.php?id=705287

Any recommendations for a first time buyer is greatly appreciated. Right now I wish I could just buy both, haha

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Posted

Not so much advice as observations, but an Avid Mk-IV will be either 1150lb. or 1200lb. MTOW, and a Kitfox model 4 will be either 1050lb. or 1200lb. MTOW. A 582 powered Avid Mk-IV will likely have a lower empty weight than either of the Kitfoxes w/ a 582, ergo a higher useful load. IMHO, that KF w/panel plus Grove gear, lights etc. might be a bit on the heavy side for a 582. Looks like only a single wing tank too, so not a lot of range with full fuel and a couple porker pilots (like me, not necessarily you!). Be very careful to check for all telltale Avid oem Mk-IV improvements on that plane, they are separate from the Airdale mods. Many owners simply added 7/8" lift struts to a C model and called it 1200lb. MTOW Heavy Hauler. You might be able to see larger dia. tubing, but impossible to tell if seat truss or spar carry thru tubing wall thickness is increased on sealed tubes without cutting! Search for the list of Mk-IV mods I posted onsite and check for them at your pre-buy inspection.

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Posted

I dont think you will need more useful load than the Avid will haul. Most dont haul a lot.

If my 4 tanks are full, then I will have to fly solo.

I would go with the Soob, but I am not skilled or knowledgeable about flying 2-strokes.

Some swear by them, others swear at them. Everything is a compromise.

ED in MO

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for advice, err, observations. I know the Avid Mark IV with the EA81 has the airdale mods because the current owner landed in Missouri April of 2011 and got a wicked tailwheel shimmy after installing a new tailwheel, it pulled him to the left with full right rudder and he ran into a 15ft deep drainage ditch just off the runway.

Airdale took the aircraft and stripped it bare, they then completely rebuilt the fuesalage including the 16" stretch, enlarged rudder and elevator and upgraded the struts, ect. They also did the Airdale bush gear with the 21" Tundra's. The prop was sent in to Warp Drive and was completely inspected and rebuilt, a blade was replaced along with the spinner and it was rebalanced and returned to the owner. The engine was rebuilt also and has since has 68 hours on it but 2 hours ago had a ingition coil go bad during flight. The coil has been replaced and the engine has been run and they could not duplicate the problem, unfortunately it has not been flown since.

I trust the repairs but I was sent a picture of the empty weight of the aircraft as listed on the Builders Plaque and found the empty weight to be at 665lbs, that seems awfully high. The avid also has a max gross of 1,150 as listed on the certificate.

The aircraft overall only has 1.4 Hours since the latest repairs/upgrades, no flight time since the ignition discrepancy which has been written off and returned to service according to the owner.

That makes me very leary of the avid.

Edited by RMendler

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Posted

Here's some better pictures I was sent, it's such a beautiful avid i have a hard time turning it down

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Posted

and some more, sorry if i double posted a few

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Posted

Here is a copy of our last email (avid owner) after inquiring about the damage history and the repairs that followed.

"I put a new tail wheel on the airplane and it worked great on my turf runway, but on hard pavement it would shimmy. I made an adjustment and took it to our local airport to see if it helped any. When I landed it still had the shimmy and it pulled me to the right of the runway. Any other airport and I would have gone into the grass and it would have been a nonevent. But our local airport had a drainage ditch about 15ft. deep next to it and the plane went down into it. The left Flaperon attach points broke, the gear got torn off and the fuselage was bent. The engine was off but one blade got pushed back and broke as well.

I took the engine and prop off and sent the prop and hub back to the manufacture for inspection. They replaced one blade and had them send me a new prop hub as also as a safety precaution. I them tore the airplane all the way down and took it to Airdale who then put into their jig and cut out all the damage and welded in all new structure. I also purchased their bush gear and had them do the 16†fuselage stretch and raise the vertical, enlarge the rudder and install the dorsal fin. When I got it back I installed the Airdale Flaperon attach ribs (stronger then the Avid ribs), one new wing tip, all new fabric (except the horizontal and elevator), painted it and re-assembled the airplane. I took it on a test flight a few days before my bi-annual expired and flew 1.4 hrs to check the airplane out and did 4 takeoff and landings as well. As I told you, on the way back to my airstrip the engine stuttered so when I got back I inspected the engine and found a bad connection on the coil. I purchased a new coil and replaced it and ran the engine and couldn’t duplicate the problem. I then signed off the discrepancy in the logbook. If you decide to buy the airplane, I would recommend staying in the pattern just to make sure. I can be overly cautious, but I believe it’s just wise. That’s it. Thanks for the questions and don’t feel bad if you have some more. Rather you ask them now. Have great week!"

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Posted

I think the guy wanting 26 for a 582 powered KF is smoking crack. I don't care how nice it is, that is pretty high for that plane.

:BC:

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Posted (edited)

I think the guy wanting 26 for a 582 powered KF is smoking crack. I don't care how nice it is, that is pretty high for that plane.

:BC:/>/>

I was thinking the same thing. What would think is reasonable for it? I may make a counter offer

I'm leaning more towards the avid even though it doesn't have much time since a major repair. I just worry about the avid having mechanical and structural issues even though it doesn't appear too

Edited by RMendler

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Posted

IMO - a Kitfox IV with a 582 that is PERFECT, including the Gold Lindy it won at Oshkosh last year, might be worth $20k if the motor was zero timed.

Some points to consider:

Lowrance GPS - Worthless Junk. Unsupported by anyone now.

The King KX76A Transponder is a $250 unit (little value)

The rest of the panel looks very heavy - Gyro instruments? Really?

I bought a IV-1200 Classic a couple of years ago (my restore project) with a 912 in it for $18k.

That plane is a $15k plane, max.

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Posted

IMO - a Kitfox IV with a 582 that is PERFECT, including the Gold Lindy it won at Oshkosh last year, might be worth $20k if the motor was zero timed.

Some points to consider:

Lowrance GPS - Worthless Junk. Unsupported by anyone now.

The King KX76A Transponder is a $250 unit (little value)

The rest of the panel looks very heavy - Gyro instruments? Really?

I bought a IV-1200 Classic a couple of years ago (my restore project) with a 912 in it for $18k.

That plane is a $15k plane, max.

X2 Larry is just about dead on with his thoughts on the plane. The only kicker is, the light sport market is heating up and it seems to be turning the corner and gaining some value as guys are loosing the medicals or are on a fixed income and can no longer afford to fly the gas guzzlers..

:BC:

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Posted

Well i think the kitfox idea is fading fast but I'm still going to take a look at it and see what one looks like up close. It should be similar in dimension to the avid mark iv. If not the same correct?

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Posted

Four for Four is a pretty comparable airplane dimensionally, on the ground.

In the air a Kitfox IV or later is FAR superior. (Sorry Avid guys) The wing and control system is leaps and bounds superior in it's speed, handling and control.

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Posted

i like it. I've found some others I intend to look at this week. Not all taildraggers and not all avids/kitfox's. I really want a good stol plane that I can trailer home.

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Posted

For $15k or less that low time, pretty yellow KF-3 w/ 582 on BS now will make someone on the west coast happy. Basic but looks well built.

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Posted (edited)

If I were to buy the yellow/white Avid in Wyoming, what could I sell the EA81 for, maybe as a FWF package and install a Rotax 912 or 914UL. I've been told atleast $25,000 to do the Rotax conversion which is definitely out of my budget at this moment but might be food for thought in the future.

From my quick calculations it would increase useful load from around 70-100lbs which would make a substancial increase in performance solo and dual with no decrease in HP and the fuel burn should remain around the same.

I'm also curious what can be done to increase cruise speed. The owner has told me I could turn out some higher RPM's with a prop adjustment and might be able to get to a 90mph cruise but I would take up alot more runway and turn higher RPM's which would in turn reduce engine life. Would Vortex Generators and Gap Seals help in any significant way? Would it be possible to mount the radiatior anywhere else? I've heard of the cowl being modified to mount the radiator up front and reduce alot of drag.

Thoughts, experience?

Edited by RMendler

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