Mark IV For Sale

117 posts in this topic

Posted

Been listed and re-listed at least once IIRC. Must have issues.

I'm leary of buying an aircraft I can't fly anyway. Might have a good engine but it doesnt get off the ground

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Posted

Something I'm leary of when I'm looking at an airplane add is when they say "new prop" Why would anyone replace a good prop and then turn around and sell the plane. I would then worry about a prop strike. Someone mentioned posting a wanted add on Barnstormers, I think that's good advice. If it's not up for sale 'oficially', it might give you a bit more time if it's a real good deal because others aren't racing there to beat you. Take care, Jim Chuk

I'm leary of buying an aircraft I can't fly anyway. Might have a good engine but it doesnt get off the ground

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Posted (edited)

I know he wants way too much. Thought about making him a counter offer. I highly doubt he will back of $6k though

The link to craigslist is intriguing. 125hp Subaru engine? interesting. Still a heavy engine though which is the problem I'm seeing. no payload. can anyone elaborate on the turbo subaru engine? Very nice looking aircraft.

I'm not up to date on T-Soobs - NSI had one years ago with 140 hp - Turbo adds weight and more to worry about.

That engine is probably a LOT HEAVIER!

One company I dont personally care for is Eggenfeldner - A friend bought one, sorry to say, and wrecked his plane because of it. I've heard other not-so-good reports on their engines and redrives.

All the Soob engines after the EA-81 are heavier with their overhead cams. That's not good in our little birds.

A point of history: The Soob EA-51 originally was an airplane engine, (EA=Experimental Airplane, I am told, but why didnt they say it in Japanese?), but the 50 hp was not enough, so they put it in a car. It evolved from there to the EA-71 and EA-81. It is based on the "Boxer" engine used in VW and old Porche, but used newer engineering and liquid-cooling.

Ed in MO

BTW: Continental, Lycoming, Franklin, and other opposed-cylinder "certified engines" are Boxer engines, but the required 150 hour part-throttle FAA certification is not nearly as tough to pass as the tests done on the Subaru engines running wide open for weeks on the test tracks.

Mitsubishi and others made the planes for the surprise party at Pearl Harbor, December 7th, 1941 - Lest we forget!

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

I gotta jump back in here.... I must admit, when Randy started his SuberAvid project, I really thought it was going to be a dog of a performer. When he first flew it, I had to throttle back to around 54-5500 to cruise with him as he had a fixed pitch prop and it was not real stellar on the performance. Now that he has the IVO IFA, I am running at 6000-6100 to try and keep up with him and he has to throttle back so he does not run away from me. He has no issues hauling two people, gear and gas.

I think I may beat him off the ground by a hair, but he can climb and out cruise me all day long while sipping the gas.... It pains me to have to admit how good the SuberAvid does.. The kicker to this is that we are flying at Sea level at temps from -30 to maybe 80 above, so we get better performance out of the planes here than you poor folks do down there south of that other country in the middle :lol:

:BC:

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Posted

I am wondering what are the real numbers for a 912 install on a mark IV. What is the real weight. What are some real performance numbers? Everybody likes slamming the subes but I'm wondering how much better the 912 versions really are.

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Posted (edited)

I gotta jump back in here.... I must admit, when Randy started his SuberAvid project, I really thought it was going to be a dog of a performer. When he first flew it, I had to throttle back to around 54-5500 to cruise with him as he had a fixed pitch prop and it was not real stellar on the performance. Now that he has the IVO IFA, I am running at 6000-6100 to try and keep up with him and he has to throttle back so he does not run away from me. He has no issues hauling two people, gear and gas.

I think I may beat him off the ground by a hair, but he can climb and out cruise me all day long while sipping the gas.... It pains me to have to admit how good the SuberAvid does.. The kicker to this is that we are flying at Sea level at temps from -30 to maybe 80 above, so we get better performance out of the planes here than you poor folks do down there south of that other country in the middle :lol:/>/>/>

:BC:/>/>/>

Leni, Thanks for the kind words about our "old-fashion" 4-cycle Soobs. Sometimes it gets lonely on here.

I hope Richard reads that too.

Randy will need JATO and an afterburner to keep up with your new engine - Hope it works good, as a lot of people are surely watching - Is "Leni's Super-2 Engine Company" going to sell to the public? Or, do you want to keep the Avid Championship all to yourself? :lol:/>/> sorry, but thats the only emoticon I know! Here's a Beerchug too!

Good Flying,

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted (edited)

I am wondering what are the real numbers for a 912 install on a mark IV. What is the real weight. What are some real performance numbers? Everybody likes slamming the subes but I'm wondering how much better the 912 versions really are.

I have asked several times about the FWF weight of the 912 - Nobody answers!

Like all the other engines advertised - I wouldnt believe the published weight they list in mags.

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Leni, Thanks for the kind words about our "old-fashion" 4-cycle Soobs. Sometimes it gets lonely on here.

I hope Richard reads that too.

Randy will need JATO and an afterburner to keep up with your new engine - Hope it works good, as a lot of people are surely watching - Is "Leni's Super-2 Engine Company" going to sell to the public? Or, do you want to keep the Avid Championship all to yourself? smilielol.gif/>/> sorry, but thats the only emoticon I know! Here's a Beerchug too!

Good Flying,

ED in MO

Well Ed, I thought I had a pretty solid supplier for the engine until Arctic Cat and Suzuki split the sheets.... if it works as I think it will, I will be combing the web for used sleds that were wrecked and I can get the engines from them and rebuild them. I can get all parts all day long for the 800 engine, but not whole complete new in the crate engines...

If the adapter plate works and I can get the performance I think I will, I will pull the plate off and send it to a shop with CNC and have a stack of them cut for use by others if they want to go this route. The biggest challenge is still going to be getting the exhaust working and keeping it inside the cowling... This is where the 4 strokes really shine!

:BC:

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Posted (edited)

Well Ed, I thought I had a pretty solid supplier for the engine until Arctic Cat and Suzuki split the sheets.... if it works as I think it will, I will be combing the web for used sleds that were wrecked and I can get the engines from them and rebuild them. I can get all parts all day long for the 800 engine, but not whole complete new in the crate engines...

If the adapter plate works and I can get the performance I think I will, I will pull the plate off and send it to a shop with CNC and have a stack of them cut for use by others if they want to go this route. The biggest challenge is still going to be getting the exhaust working and keeping it inside the cowling... This is where the 4 strokes really shine!

:BC:/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>

Wild West Guns in Anchorage has CNC now - and they make parts for Atlee Dodge, or did - However, for my production work, I contracted with a shop here in Missouri and even with the shipping it was cheaper than Alaska.

And, my steel parts were heavy.

2024 would last a lifetime that heavy, and a coat of paint, IMO. 6061 is even cheaper and less corosive - still would paint.

So this is a Suzuki engine?

As the performance goes, I know that my Suber-Flapper will be a heavy plane, but I need a comfortable commuter for those 500 mile trips here in the flat country - No potholes or snow here to fly into, and I cant swim.

If it comes in under 800, I will be happy with the 1320 mtow. Very few places to land here under 2000 feet long anyway. Gas mileage is a big plus with the Soob. And time means little when you are retired, except worrying when you will run out of it!

I've got a spare $1000 Soob sitting in the shed - but will hold on to it until my reductions engine is proven.

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Interesting guys, I'm still trying to absorb all the information I'm reading. Does anyone have experience with the 2-strokes that can chime in? In particular the 582 or 670 conversion?

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Posted

Interesting guys, I'm still trying to absorb all the information I'm reading. Does anyone have experience with the 2-strokes that can chime in? In particular the 582 or 670 conversion?

I have lots of hours behind my 582 and others, what info are you looking for?

:BC:

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Posted (edited)

I have lots of hours behind my 582 and others, what info are you looking for?

:BC:/>/>

Randy, "SuberAvid" and some others could probably give you lots of comparison info too, since they fly both 2 and 4 strokes.

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

I have lots of hours behind my 582 and others, what info are you looking for?

:BC:/>

Reliability, how has it been. Can you run 100LL if necessary. How do you mix the oil, I've been told 50:1 and 40:1. Would you trust the 2 stroke rotax (582) on a long cross country?

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Posted (edited)

A new avid just popped up on barnstormers. It's intriguing but I don't have much info on it

Edit*. Wow did some research on the blue avid that just came up on barnstormers. Major structural damage, prop strike, broken right wing, twisted passenger cabin. No wonder it seemed so cheap, haha.

Edited by RMendler

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Posted

I have asked several times about the FWF weight of the 912 - Nobody answers!

Like all the other engines advertised - I wouldnt believe the published weight they list in mags.

ED in MO

Because no one ever weighs their FWF. That's why.

I have a 912UL on the stand. With engine mount, muffler, carbs, oil in the tank etc ready to bolt on. No prop, no coolant or radiator. Weighed tonight. 162#.

The 582 has a proven reliable record. The 670, not so much. I can give you a list of people as long as my arm who have gone from the 582 to the 670 to get more power. The next step is to the 912 because the 670 was an unreliable money pit at best and a noisy death trap at worst.

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Posted (edited)

Any way to up the power of the 582? The 583 conversion does not sound ideal to me but is it successful?

Edited by RMendler

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Posted

Because no one ever weighs their FWF. That's why.

I have a 912UL on the stand. With engine mount, muffler, carbs, oil in the tank etc ready to bolt on. No prop, no coolant or radiator. Weighed tonight. 162#.

The 582 has a proven reliable record. The 670, not so much. I can give you a list of people as long as my arm who have gone from the 582 to the 670 to get more power. The next step is to the 912 because the 670 was an unreliable money pit at best and a noisy death trap at worst.

Thanks for the honest weight of the 912.

Ed in MO

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Posted

Any way to up the power of the 582? The 583 conversion does not sound ideal to me but is it successful?

If you dig thru the posts you will find one pro and many cons about the 583.

The biggest cheap leap you could take up from the 582 would be Leni's 800 if he is successful with the conversion.

ED in MO

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Posted

I'm still curious what a mark IV with the 912 empty weight is. Is it 50 lbs lighter than a sube? is it 100 lbs lighter? And how does this translate into performance? Anybody out there reading this actually flying one? Cheers gents.Ben

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Posted

Reliability, how has it been. Can you run 100LL if necessary. How do you mix the oil, I've been told 50:1 and 40:1. Would you trust the 2 stroke rotax (582) on a long cross country?

I premix my fuel at 100:1 using high end synthetic Amsoil mix oil. The standard with regular oil is 50:1. When going cross country I run 100LL for a whole trip although when at home I run 92 Octane Chevron Gas. 100LL won't hurt things. As far as reliability and and cross countries...sit back and watch these.

California to Idaho in an Avid

10 Day 1500NM trip to Idaho and Back

Do I trust my 2 stroke...Hell yeah!

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Posted

Any way to up the power of the 582? The 583 conversion does not sound ideal to me but is it successful?

Richard,

Lots of folks fly the 582 - Joey and Leni fly constantly in all conditions - The 2-strokes need someone who understands how to fly them and care for them - Lots different than a Continental C series.

If you could find a good 912 or Soob, you might be more comfortable with it, IMO - I dont fly 2-strokes, but I sure respect those who know how to keep the fan turning with them.

ED in MO

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Posted

Been listed and re-listed at least once IIRC. Must have issues.

NYC99LA030 On November 28, 1998, about 1530 eastern standard time, a homebuilt Kitfox IV, N9724F, struck a deer while landing at Royalton Airport (9G5), Gasport, New York. The airplane was substantially damaged, and the certificated private pilot was not injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed for the personal flight that departed from Royalton Airport about 1445, and was conducted under 14 CFR 91.

In the NTSB Pilot/Operator Aircraft Accident Report, the pilot stated:

"...on final on runway 25, flying directly into the sun. Flared out for a wheel landing at an airspeed of 55-60 MPH. Just as the main wheels touched down on the runway it felt as if the front of the aircraft exploded, the plane nosed over and the nose skidded along the runway for some 75 feet and came to a stop on the right side of the runway...I got out the right side door, and saw a dead deer about 30 ft off the right side of the runway. Three witnesses told me the deer was running and jumping from my left to right and jumped into the front of the aircraft. The deer weighted about 150 pounds."

An inspector from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), reported that the lower fuselage in the vicinity of the firewall was crushed in, and the propeller blades were broken off. In addition, the engine mounts were bent.

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Posted (edited)

I'm still curious what a mark IV with the 912 empty weight is. Is it 50 lbs lighter than a sube? is it 100 lbs lighter? And how does this translate into performance? Anybody out there reading this actually flying one? Cheers gents.Ben

Ben,

From the report of approx 162 pounds above for the 912, and we know that the EA-81 Subaru will go from 190 to 200 lbs depending on redrive and accessories used, then figure 40 to 50 pounds difference in weights for the FWF.

The rest is depending on how heavy the plane was built.

Also, the EA-81 Soob, without a turbocharger, could have anywhere from 80 to 115 hp, depending on how it was built.

A Continental C-90 will weigh about 175 for comparison.

All these weights are without props.

Hope this answers your questions.

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Ed. You know what I'm getting at though. Being an ea81 man I know what my plane will and won't do. I know what it weighs and I know how much fuel is going through it. I would like someone with a 912 powered mark IV HH STOL to chime in with the real goods. What does it weigh? What can it do? At what altitude above sea level? My gross is set at 1200 because the plane was previously on floats. With 2 190 pound men and more than half fuel it needs lots of room and full flaps in the winter to get of the ground. (Full gross) Don't have any good climb numbers but 300+ ish with that much load seems it. My engine is basically stock. Opened up exhaust and 2 barrel carter. Simple setup that purrs like a kitten. 68(was 70 cut down) inch warp dive 3 blade set at 7 degrees. Maybe other sube operators with bigger power can post as well. Should I do the cam mod and shave the heads? Does a 912 weigh in at 620 pounds.(Lighter FWF thus no tail counter weight) Will that same plane at gross still be the hotrod everyone seems to think. Cheers. Ben

Edited by IFMT

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Ed. You know what I'm getting at though. Being an ea81 man I know what my plane will and won't do. I know what it weighs and I know how much fuel is going through it. I would like someone with a 912 powered mark IV HH STOL to chime in with the real goods. What does it weigh? What can it do? At what altitude above sea level? My gross is set at 1200 because the plane was previously on floats. With 2 190 pound men and more than half fuel it needs lots of room and full flaps in the winter to get of the ground. (Full gross) Don't have any good climb numbers but 300+ ish with that much load seems it. My engine is basically stock. Opened up exhaust and 2 barrel carter. Simple setup that purrs like a kitten. 68(was 70 cut down) inch warp dive 3 blade set at 7 degrees. Maybe other sube operators with bigger power can post as well. Should I do the cam mod and shave the heads? Does a 912 weigh in at 620 pounds.(Lighter FWF thus no tail counter weight) Will that same plane at gross still be the hotrod everyone seems to think. Cheers. Ben

Ben,

i guess you either have a stock Reductions EA-81, or another conversion. You are probably at 80 hp, depending on whether you have hydraulic lifters or solid. If you want more power, then milling the heads and a cam regrind will put you at 100 hp or better. The valves on the hydraulic are larger, and it helps to have the heads redone to take the larger valves and ported. The cams and lifters between hydro and solid are not interchangeable. Stratus rates their engine at 115, but that is pushing a lot of rpms, and I wont push mine that hard.

I have the stock Reductions 81, but the heads were milled and I dont know about the cam, and will have to pull the valve covers to see about lifters. I have what I have, and if not happy with it I will worry about that after I get mine flying. The original owner said to set my 70 inch WD at about 11 degrees, and 42-4400 static.

Now you can wait for the 912 reports. I am guessing that the 80 hp 912 wont do any better. 50lbs on a 1200 GW is not going to make much difference,IMO.

HP can make a huge difference: We changed a C-65Hp for a C-90hp in a J3, and the increase in performance was amazing!

Ed in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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