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100LL

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Posted (edited)

Does anyone here have any information on burning premixed 100LL in the 582?

 

I've been trying to figure out how to X-Country my KitFox but no one here in NC or the surrounding area have MOGAS.  Looks like 100LL would be the only option if I wanted to venture away from my home airport.

 

I just hear all this talk of "oh it causes buildups which increases compression and causes detonation and you will DIE DIE DIE".

 

I'm just searching for the truth.

 

I have also switched to a mixture of 70:1 with 1-2 OZ of Marvel Mystery Oil per 5 gallons.  Seem's to work well, doesn't drop the octane rating of the fuel as much and it smokes ALOT less.

 

The local guys are burning 100:1 ratios with even less MMO as me.  They all say it works fine for them

Edited by RMendler

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Posted

Kitfox was selling a bottle of something that is supposed to take the lead out of 100LL - Don't have a clue as to what it is - there were some other chemicals on the market at one time but seem to remember that one of them was discontinued, or outlawed.

Bet you get some better answers from the 2-strokers.

EDMO

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Posted

Why does Rick recommend 40:1? I would love to back off on my oil additive. Seems i go through more oil than gas sometimes.

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Posted

Decalin is the lead scavenger that people use in the 2 strokes burning 100LL.  I dont think that using 100LL here and there for the occasional trip would do a darn thing to your engine.  We burned it for over 100 hrs in my brothers KF with no ill effects. 

 

:BC:

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Posted

I wish I could figure out what kind of oil guys are running at 100:1. I would think it is Amsoil Saber. That is a 100:1 specific ratio formula.

I wish I didn't live in a part of the country where $6.50 100ll is normal. Cost me about 90 bucks to fill up plus the oil, so I'm well over $110 a tank right now

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Posted

holy cripes, and I thought I was getting raped paying 5.90 a gallon for it last week...

 

:BC:

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Posted

We occasionally get 100ll around $5.90 but its an act of god. Fuel is high here in the southeast, more so then up north it seems like

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Posted (edited)

Our 100LL has been about the same price as yours - just under $6 at last fillup.

Just wait until the 100LL substitute comes out - Guessing a lot higher...Should make the greenies happy...

Leni, is Decalin good for 4 strokes too? Easier to carry a bottle than to try to mix 100LL, Mogas, at trip airports - What is the mix?

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted (edited)

I am purchasing non ethanol 90 octane for around $3.70 a gallon right now, me and a few others at the airport take it upon ourselves to test this "no ethanol" fuel and it turns out to be ethanol free most of the time. Very little to no water content. When we do find water we take it back and believe it or not the gas station will refund us our money or give us fresh no ethanol fuel. The company is called Rush Fuel of Tennessee.

I have such a hard time paying $6 a gallon for 100ll. It's a shame fuel is so high. Being 22 years old I don't make much money, barely scraping by. I worry I will not be able to afford my lil old kitfox in a few years if fuel keeps getting higher.

Edited by RMendler

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Posted

If only I could swap my all aluminum 383 stroked ls1 into my kitfox. Probably get better fuel burn with 400hp and 400tq. A guy can dream, haha

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Posted

Decalin is fine in both 2 and 4-stroke engines Ed. I bought some for my 582 but will end up using it in my 912ul and 912uls. A little goes a long way the shelf life is indefinite which is good, although the Co. told me it will darken with age. Dosage of 1/2 ounce per ten gallons of fuel is a minimum and can be increased to a maximum of 2 ounces per gallon for problem engines - See more HERE

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Posted

Decalin is fine in both 2 and 4-stroke engines Ed. I bought some for my 582 but will end up using it in my 912ul and 912uls. A little goes a long way the shelf life is indefinite which is good, although the Co. told me it will darken with age. Dosage of 1/2 ounce per ten gallons of fuel is a minimum and can be increased to a maximum of 2 ounces per gallon for problem engines - See more HERE

Thanks Doug,

Sounds like that might keep the lead out of the plugs on our C-90 Cub too.

EDMO

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Posted

Per the LEAF guys, 100LL is just fine in a 2-stroke.  They didn't even mention the need for the lead scavenger (Decalin).  That's more for the 912 motors due to the buildup of lead in the engine oil leading to deposits in the gear case.

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Posted

I burn 100LL for a week every year on my Idaho trip. The only difference I notice besides the dent in my account and a little lower EGT's is that on an Avid with the plugs inverted they get nastied up with this grey crap (the lead I assume) pretty quickly. I will occasionally mix 5 gallons of Avgas in with my pump gas too just to dilute the ethanol a little bit especially if I know I won't be flying for a couple weeks. I bought decalin and used it here and there and finally just quit using it. I felt like I was making some kind of brew pouring oil into the tank and then that stuff too. I'm running the Amsoil Saber Pro at 100:1. A major factor in my decision to run it was the fact that I fly about 120 hrs a year and my engine gets ran a minimum of weekly and usually more frequently than that. If I was a guy that only went out for an hour or two of playing once or twice a month I would probably burn non synthetic oil at 50:1. The full synthetic oil has a tendency to run off the metal parts when it sits for any length of time.

 

I was a 50:1 cheap oil guy for years until I met the guy who I bought my Firewall forward from. He flew behind two different 582's for 2600 hrs..Yes 2600 all at 100:1. The second one I got had well over 800 well documented hours on it with only one tear down. I ran it for a while on my bird until I put a new Blue Head in it. Those numbers made me a believer and I tried it with good results. Seems to be working so far. Rotax Rick recommends 40:1 for the crank bearing lubrication I believe. I think he is trying to put a stop to the bad rap two strokes get by taking out some of the variables. I would have to stash oil along my route of flight on those 30 hour 150 gallon Idaho trips if I mixed at 40:1!

 

For those Pre-mixing and fueling up at Avgas pumps at busy airports be prepared for some crazy ass looks from Spam can drivers when you climb up on the ladder and start pouring oil into your gas tank!!!! I had one guy actually run over and try to stop me once it was great!! I could of really messed with that dude instead I just told him it had a weedeater motor in it. :hammerhead: I put a shutoff valve between my left tank and the header tank that shut off while fueling so that I know no fuel is transferring tank to tank. I put a known quanity in each tank and write it down in a little notebook that I stashed up in the wing root area. From there it's a simple math calculation to find out how much oil to put in each tank. Pour it in each side, put on the caps, rock the wings with the strut for about 30 seconds...longer if it's cold out and blast back off for the next fuel stop. Takes me about an extra 5 minutes.

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Posted

Good info. When I burn through my 50:1 Penzoil mix I will switch to the 100:1 if its really safe. 2-stroke oil is getting expensive.

I wish more airports carried mogas but I understand why they don't. I was looking at 6a4's quote for 93 octane no ethanol mogas. The cheapest he could get it would be around $4.70 a gallon. Nobody would buy it. You could drive 5 minutes and get it for $3.70 at the local gas station and that stuff is ethanol free too

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Posted

Good info. When I burn through my 50:1 Penzoil mix I will switch to the 100:1 if its really safe. 2-stroke oil is getting expensive.

I wish more airports carried mogas but I understand why they don't. I was looking at 6a4's quote for 93 octane no ethanol mogas. The cheapest he could get it would be around $4.70 a gallon. Nobody would buy it. You could drive 5 minutes and get it for $3.70 at the local gas station and that stuff is ethanol free too

Depends on where you are - there are some states where real-gas is available in a lot of stations - But around St. Louis, you will have to look long and hard for it - Marinas and Farmers, I am told, may have it - but growing up on a farm and knowing a little about BIG boats - Most of them use diesel today. But, they still use gas for chainsaws!

EDMO

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Posted

How many of you have heard of 100VLL, or used it? The first time I had heard of it was when I went to the site Doug posted above about Decalin.

How much lead does this contain compared to 100LL which has 4 or 5 times the lead of the old 87?

EDMO

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Posted (edited)

I've never heard of it here on the east coast.  I finally found 1 airport in NC with MOGAS, W17 (Raleigh East).  You just have to call ahead.

 

I think I could just barely make it to W17, fill up and head on out to the coast for a fishing trip.  Just to be safe I would stop after I got out of the mountains and get a couple gallons of 100LL.  No need to cut it too close.

 

From what I can tell all Non-Ethanol Fuel has been phased out it NC.  TN is another story, I find it everywhere in a 90 octane.  I did find a place to order Non-Ethanol 93 Octane in NC but it's an oil supply company and when myself and a buddy Frank went to go test it before we bought it had ethanol and water in it (alot).  Don't trust people who say it is ethanol free.

Edited by RMendler

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Posted

Guess it would be wise for all of us to buy and carry an alcohol/water tester - Where? Spruce? What kind is best?

EDMO

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Posted (edited)

I will ask Charlie, one of our local CubCrafter owners (we have 3 now, all matching).  He bought a calibrated gauge, he uses it everytime he fills up.  It tells him exactly how much ethanol and water is in the fuel and it only take a couple of minutes.  I doubt it cost much.

 

Here we go $.6.50 + Shipping

 

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/fb/fueltesters/gasoholTester.php

 

I was going to take Charlies ethanol tester and take my fuel sampler and transfer the marks over with a sharpie.  Problem solved for me.  The calibration should remain the same considering they are both the same size tester..  I have the ASA sampler tube

Edited by RMendler

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Posted

For ethanol testing, use an olive jar, ketchup jar etc... Mark a line about 1" from the bottom, fill to that line with water, and then fill to the top with the gas you are testing. Shake and let it settle....

Ethanol mixes with water and you will notice your "water level" has risen. If it is e-free, the water level will stay the same.

Or just get some cake food coloring and drip a few drops in the test bottle. The color will mix with ethanol laced gas not with pure gas.

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Posted

yup that works very well.  tested the fuel we put into Roy's Mini-Max (check the vid posted on this forum).

 

the calibrated gauges are nice so you know how bad a particular gas company is bending you over.

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Posted

The best/cheapest tester for the presence of ethanol contamination in your fuel is plain food coloring.

 

Take your sample of fuel, add a couple drops of your favorite color and if it colors the fuel, ethanol contamination is present.  If it sinks to the bottom forming a little colored droplet, you have clean fuel.

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Posted

Good to know. If I can't fly my friends pa-28-180 today then I'm going to drain my tanks. I'll give it a test

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Posted

The best/cheapest tester for the presence of ethanol contamination in your fuel is plain food coloring.

 

Take your sample of fuel, add a couple drops of your favorite color and if it colors the fuel, ethanol contamination is present.  If it sinks to the bottom forming a little colored droplet, you have clean fuel.

I wonder what kind of dye they put into gas to color it - We used to have colored gas on the farm, and for planes too - That would show a leak real fast - it showed up on our carbs too, so the govment could tell if you were using farm gas on highway vehicles and not paying the road tax.

EDMO

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