New member looking at a Avid Model B

[wfletch 3]

Hi my is name is Wayne, I just joined the group and need advice about what to look for when considering the Avid Model B.

I have owned 10 different airplanes but no kitplanes. I liked the idea of folding wings and am thinking of trailering behind a motorhome.

Any advice?

[EDMO 1078]

Welcome Wayne, Where are you located?

Be patient and surely you will get an answer from the Avid flyers - As you can read, "Big Daddy" Leni is sort of busy right now as we are "expecting"!

I'm just a dum ole Kitfox type, 4 cycle engines, and only know about the Avid Clones....

EDMO

Edited 31 Aug 2013 by Ed In Missouri

[C5Engineer 1170]

Welcome to the forum Wayne. Any pics or details on the one your looking at? There is lots of different mods and variants out there. Depending on your mission some are desirable and some are not. If your looking for a turn key fun flyer that will get in and out of a short strip your going to want one that is light (450-550) lbs empty has a 582 that hasn't been sitting it's whole life(low Total time is good but they don't sit like a lycoming..sitting on a two-stroke is worse than running them), and has the STOL Wing (uncambered bottom vs. Flat) The Flat bottom wing is the Speedwing and unless it's been extended generally has undesirable flight characteristics. If your an experienced builder and maintainer then most of those things I mentioned can all be done fairly easy if you can get the one your looking at for the right price. Spend some time reading on here there is gobs of Avid information and the search box works well if you have some specific questions or just ask away and we'll do our best to answer.

[dholly 718]

Hello and welcome to the AFF Forum Wayne!

Curious why you asked the question the way you did? Are you looking at one particular Avid B for sale opportunity, or somehow feel that particular model is most desirable to you for some reason(s)? If the later, why? There are several folding wing aircraft that could be trailered, some more easily than others. Do you want to pull an enclosed trailer or open? How do you intend to use the aircraft once at your destination? Low MTOW of B model might be a negative if you're traveling/flying alone, but low empty weight would make for an easy pull. What's your budget? I think the lukewarm response to your question is because there are so many variables. I for one love to help but have kinda soured to writing lengthy posts only to realize someone hasn't even contemplated some very basic (and sometimes, show-stopping questions). Not trying to be an ass here but if you can fill in some of the blanks for us I think we can offer much more valuable input. BTW, I would LOVE to do what you propose for a year or three, what a blast!

[dholly 718]

Hmm, EDIT function inop?

Meant to say "Low MTOW of B model might be a negative if you're NOT traveling/flying alone, but low empty weight would make for an easy pull."

[wfletch 3]

I would like to thank everyone who commented on my request for info on the Model B Avid. I'm going to look at a tricycle gear airplane tomorrow. I am considering it because we  travel alot in our motorhome and I miss the flying. I think this airplane might be a good starter airplane, I might switch to a bigger Kitfox or Highlander in the future. 

The airplane I'm looking at is listed on Barnstormers now.

I have a very open mind about the whole idea and looking for advice.

I live on an airpark in AZ. now, but am considering  RVing fulltime. I am a CFI and retired Corporate pilot.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm rambling, I'm not much of a writer.

 

Thanks again,

Wayne

[EDMO 1078]

Wayne,

What kind of tri-gear plane are you looking at?

Your writing is fine - just need more details - Keep it coming.

EDMO

Edited 2 Sep 2013 by Ed In Missouri

[SuberAvid 617]

Welcome to the Forum Wayne.  I always get a kick out of guys who are commercial or military pilots who "discover" the joys of flying the Avid/Kitfox planes.  They are completely on the other end of the spectrum from the go fast - airport to airport planes, but for recreational fun, when it is more about enjoying the flying than jus getting there; you can't beat these planes!  They are a blast to fly low and slow and a great off airport platform, plus very cheap to own and operate in comparison to most certified planes.  As you state, being able to trailer them is a great advantage that even most of the owners don't utilize on a regular basis.  I would love to do what you are considering with your RV and trailering the airplane.  I have trailered mine a few times for some long distances and it worked fine, but be sure to set up the trailer well to support and carry the plane; typically they are loaded tail first with a ramp to elevate the tail so they are almost wings level.  A purpose built trailer with built in ramps, tie down points and tire straps, a boat winch, etc. will make it most convenient.  Be sure to use the factory wing supports for the folded wings and lock your control surfaces with padded sandwiched 1x's.  My big problems were keeping all the padding in place .  The other thing is keeping water (rain and spray) out of the plane with the wings folded since the turtle deck is removed.  I fabricated a cover to fit in place and it worked pretty well but would want to design something faster and easier for a regular use situation.  Best of all would be to build an enclosed trailer but it would need to be custom built because the width of the plane is just over 8' with the wings folded.  You could get it in within the 8'6" standard width limit if you designed it real well with thin walls but pad them well so you don't get hangar rash.  If you think about all these things while you are building or setting up a trailer you should have a blast touring around the country and seeing it from the air wherever you decide to stop.

[wfletch 3]

The Avid model B I'm looking at is on tri-gear now and taildragger main gear with it.

Yes I have gone fast and now want to go slow and have fun. 

All airplanes are fun- just different

Can somebody tell the gross weight can be increased from 911 to 1050?

 

Wayne

[wfletch 3]

Thanks for info on trailers, if I go full-timing I'm sure I will go with a enclosed trailer.

 

Wayne

[1avidflyer 1983]

1. I think lots of guys have flown their B models at heavier than 911 lb.  John Miller who is on the "other" Avid site has 4000 hrs on his B avid and flys it at 1050.  The wing and fuselage was tested to 5.7 Gs with no problem or deformation by the factory.  To change the weight legally, you need to put the plane back into phase 1 and fly it and test it at the higher gross weight.  Should get FAA aproval for it first.  Call you local FSDO and talk to them. Jim Chuk

Just punched some numbers into the calculator, and 4.9 Gs at 1050 lbs would be just a little less load than the factory put on their wing shown in the picture.  911 X 5.7 = 5192    1050 X 4.9 = 5145 

Edited 3 Sep 2013 by Jim Chuk

[EDMO 1078]

• I think lots of guys have flown their B models at heavier than 911 lb.  John Miller who is on the "other" Avid site has 4000 hrs on his B avid and flys it at 1050.  The wing and fuselage was tested to 5.7 Gs with no problem or deformation by the factory.  To change the weight legally, you need to put the plane back into phase 1 and fly it and test it at the higher gross weight.  Should get FAA aproval for it first.  Call you local FSDO and talk to them. Jim Chuk

Just punched some numbers into the calculator, and 4.9 Gs at 1050 lbs would be just a little less load than the factory put on their wing shown in the picture.  911 X 5.7 = 5192    1050 X 4.9 = 5145

Jim, What do you know about the struts on the B and C models? I know that when Kitfox went from 950 on the model 2, to 1050 on model 3, they changed the struts from 3/4 to 7/8 for the same spars, although they probably didn't have to.

EDMO

P.S. I believe Leni has stated that the FAA does not put a Gross Weight on AB planes?

I don't know anything about that.

Edited 3 Sep 2013 by Ed In Missouri

[C5Engineer 1170]

Here is the plane he's looking at.

 

$12,500 • WAY BELOW MARKET • LSA -N-numbered -tricyle gear - rotax 582 g/h - 65 hrs on engine - hydraulic brakes - cockpit cover- i fly 700 gps- intercom - vertex handheld radio -Tiny Tach - MicroTim (electronic altimeter) - gas totalizer - two new mains tires and tubes -with one spare - elt - new 15 ah gell cell battrey - annual good till 3/14 - runs and flys great at 80 mph at max gross - forced to sell due to medical isssues .

 

 

 

Looks like a decent little plane. It appears they went with a belly radiator only and got rid of the side radiator that they had orginally. I'll be hitting you up for some pictures if you buy it. I want to do the same thing. I'd also like to know how they set up that red knob in the middle of the panel. I'm assuming that is for pitch trim. I've seen that knob before and I know it's a spring tensioner set up but that's all I know about it. The tiny tach and fuel flow computer are good additions that many of us haved added. It also looks like the brake pedals were modified and it has hydraulic brakes. The B model originally had mechanical drum go kart brakes that were worthless. It's got an Ivo prop which runs really smooth and is super simple to ground adjust to change the pitch settings. It looks like it only has a wing tank in one wing. The B model orginally had a tank behind the instrument panel. I can't tell from the pics if this one has one. It's probably a 14 gallon tank in the wing, which will give you a 2 hour range with a healthy reserve.  I'm using a hand held mounted in the same place on my plane and it works just fine with an external antenna. I run it through a PTT and Pilot USA 2 place intercom system. My entire radio and intercom system was about $300. One thing to make sure of is that it is the STOL(Undercambered Wing) and not the Speed Wing. I'd say if it's sound mechanically,the fabric is good, and it's the STOL wing you'd have yourself a decent little bird there for that price.

 

My B model has the 7/8" struts and the Heavy Hauler Wing and it has a GW of 1085 on the data plate. No where on any of the FAA paperwork is a gross weight number published. It was simply a number that the engineers came up and the manufactures followed for liablilty reasons. If it'll take off and safely fly at 1300lbs there's nothing that says you can't do that. Probably not a smart idea.....But the gross weights are not set in stone like on a certified. Let us know if you have any other questions to ask.

[wfletch 3]

Thanks for all the help guys, I looked at the airplane yesterday and decided to pass on it. The paperwork was incomplete and I just didn't get a good feeling about the airplane when I saw it.

I am going to continue to look for a good airplane, maybe a project to finish. If anyone knows of a good deal out there, pass it along.

 

Wayne

[EDMO 1078]

Thanks for all the help guys, I looked at the airplane yesterday and decided to pass on it. The paperwork was incomplete and I just didn't get a good feeling about the airplane when I saw it.

I am going to continue to look for a good airplane, maybe a project to finish. If anyone knows of a good deal out there, pass it along.

 

Wayne

The photos don't show if there is an N number on the plane - If so, then the FAA has OK'd it.

Can you tell us how the paperwork was incomplete, and what about the plane made you uneasy?

Every bit of info you share on here may help someone else.

EDMO

[Bandit 286]

I might have a real nice SkyRaider project for sale.

[EDMO 1078]

I might have a real nice SkyRaider project for sale.

And I've got a Kitfox 1 clone project for sale - cheaper than material costs - without wings.

EDMO

[wfletch 3]

I airplane I looked at looked like it was not built by a craftsman, and the records were one booklet that had approxement times for engine and no times for airframe.

The seller seems like a really nice guy but dosen't know much about record requirements.

I think he is going to have a hard time selling it. 

[EDMO 1078]

I airplane I looked at looked like it was not built by a craftsman, and the records were one booklet that had approxement times for engine and no times for airframe.

The seller seems like a really nice guy but dosen't know much about record requirements.

I think he is going to have a hard time selling it.

Someone will probably say about my plane, "Wow, this guy was really sloppy with the glue", but it will fly without falling apart - I hope!

EDMO