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ekobond

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Posted

I am looking for some comments on this.I have found the materials list in pdf form for ekobond and the materials list for 3m fastbond contact Adhesive 30-NF form what I am seeing this is the same [3m fastbond] here is the links also I will attach the pdf files

 

EkoBond MSDS 2010.pdf

3m.pdf

 

thanks Bob

 

 

here is the 3 m link  http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSuUn_zu8l00xM8t9NxtBNv70k17zHvu9lxtD7SSSSSS--

 

here is the link for ekobond

http://www.westav.ca/pdf/EkoBond%20MSDS%202010.pdf

 

 

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Posted

Probably cheaper but don't know if I would want to be the guinea pig.It sure does look the same on paper.Might be worth experimenting with.I know the Ecobond sure does work good and is very forgiving to breath.Randy

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Posted

It is cheaper I ordered a quart from ebay for $24.95 and that included shipping the 3 m has 2 kinds of glue the other kind is the same color as ekobond I seen on the Stewart System web site that they have the clear and they use it where the glue can be seen [like inside of the aircraft with the side panels not covered] I am pretty sure that Stewart does not make their own glue I am going to experiment with it. If I can't use it on my structural parts I can use it on the none structural parts the good news about is that it does not have much smell to it  I think the paper said just a little ammonia smell.......

Bob

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Posted (edited)

I believe a fellow near me used the 3M glue product to build his dawn patrol WW1 replica planes.  

 

It was not the Stewarts, but it was the same blue-green color and I thought it was a 3M can...

 

(Also painted with latex house paint)

Edited by Av8r3400

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Posted

I might buy a quart and do some side by side testing with it on some old cap strips.Im sure your paying a lot of money for the certification for Stewarts products.They are great people to work with but if a guy can save some dollars why not........

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Posted

I would sure like to hear the results of these tests - The clear would be maybe compatible with the Oratek 6000 that you don't have to paint - I don't care much for their instructions, although I am still waiting for my sample to arrive.

EDMO

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Posted

Ed from what I have been seeing  on the Internet people that have used the fast bond are having good results with it there is going to be a webinar on using [they call it house paint] house paint on your aircraft. The paint that they are using is a Sherwood Williams paint the process is after the fabric is glued and shrunk they brush 1 or 2 coats of Glidden Gripper primer  and then use  Inter/Exterior Hi-Gloss Latex Enamel (green cans) from Sherwood Williams Here is a link for the website

http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/Latex.htm

also this same guy will be doing the webinar on this subject next month on the eaa website

Bob

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Posted

Ed from what I have been seeing  on the Internet people that have used the fast bond are having good results with it there is going to be a webinar on using [they call it house paint] house paint on your aircraft. The paint that they are using is a Sherwood Williams paint the process is after the fabric is glued and shrunk they brush 1 or 2 coats of Glidden Gripper primer  and then use  Inter/Exterior Hi-Gloss Latex Enamel (green cans) from Sherwood Williams Here is a link for the website

http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/Latex.htm

also this same guy will be doing the webinar on this subject next month on the eaa website

Bob

There have been some articles written about painting your bird with a roller and house paint, followed by brushing over it with a foam brush - That was years ago - I never saw how long it lasted - Bet it was all going to chalk in short time - Might work with a clear coat over it, but got doubts about them getting it on thin enough - I've seen a polyurethane job with too much paint, and it cracked all over.

EDMO

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Posted

It's called roll and tip painting, done often in the marine world.  Some swear by it for simplicity and finish quality.  I've never seen the results on an airplane...

 

 

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Posted (edited)

It's called roll and tip painting, done often in the marine world.  Some swear by it for simplicity and finish quality.  I've never seen the results on an airplane...

I wonder if this could be done with better paints, like buterate, or urethane?

What kind of paints do the boat people use?

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

i used the 3m 30nf on my tail feathers no problems. wacthed the stewart videos and used it just like the ecobond.

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Posted

Kosseman I have never worked or helped cover any airplanes I have watched the stewards videos and it looks like it is pretty simple

I have also looked and read a lot on the web on how cover an aircraft I don't think I will have any problems with anything but the finishing tapes....  did you have any problems with the finishing tapes?

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Posted

No i did not have any trouble with the tapes. I only used the 3m on the tail feathers because it aloud me to cover them in a spare room in the house because as my wife said it didn't stink. I wish i had used it on the whole airplane now

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Posted

I was like you had no covered anything but i set out to not make a show plane but to have a safe servicable covering the first time. Which i achieved at a minimal cost. After the covering i rolled on two coats of black latex sanded a little and then sprayed red and white latex for the final coats.

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Posted

It still kills me that they market this crap as safe to breathe etc yet if you look at the MDSD it does not give you the warm fuzzy feeling that the sales pitch gives you.  Safe to breathe non toxic yada yada is NOT what the MDSD states.  Just my unwanted .02 on this one :lol:

 

Just cause you cant smell it does not mean it wont kill you.  There are several gasses I know that you cant smell, but will kill ya deader than a door nail in mere seconds.

 

 

:BC:

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Posted (edited)

It still kills me that they market this crap as safe to breathe etc yet if you look at the MDSD it does not give you the warm fuzzy feeling that the sales pitch gives you.  Safe to breathe non toxic yada yada is NOT what the MDSD states.  Just my unwanted .02 on this one :lol:

 

Just cause you cant smell it does not mean it wont kill you.  There are several gasses I know that you cant smell, but will kill ya deader than a door nail in mere seconds.

 

 

:BC:

Leni,

I understand what you are saying, but are you referring to the glue, the UV coat, or the finish paint?

I have watched the videos, and don't think Dan Stewart would still be around if it was that dangerous.

He did not use any protection for the glue or brushing the UV, and only a face mask for spraying the UV, but put on the protective suit and mask for the finish coats.

Seems like he treats each chemical differently.

Doug and Dan operate their own recovering business, and I would think that if anyone had died or got sick during the many recovering jobs they have done, the government would have stepped in.

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

...compared to the thousands of people who have used the Stits/Poly Fiber covering system with no ill effects.  Some people can't tolerate the MEK, I can respect that.  Most people have no problem with it other than the odor.

 

If you pay close attention to the Stewarts literature and videos, they only say that their "Thinners" are non-toxic.  Their thinner is distilled water.  Their base chemistry is hardly non-toxic.

 

I'm with you, Leni.  I considered Stewarts until I read the MSDSs.

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Posted

< I considered Stewarts until I read the MSDSs.>

I am not to concerned about the MSDSs I am working outside under a roof with no sides ...plenty of fresh air I am considering on using the 3m fast bond for the glue and using the Glidden gripper Aquacrylic White Primer and Sealer [ 1 gallon at home depot $21.98 ] for the prime and uv barrier
  and using Sherwood Williams All Surface Enamel Latex Base hi gloss for the finish you can spray all surface enamel so it should come out looking pretty good I saw a picture of someone doing this on a Pietenpol Air Camper and the pictures really looked good lots of  gloss I am not going to polish mine as much as he did his I like mine to be a little more on flat side so it will look like a fabric airplane...

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Posted (edited)

Lets face it - any time you are working with chemicals there can be hazards - You have to be responsible and use the necessary precautions and protective clothing and equipment.

MEK and Acetone both are absorbed thru the skin and in the lungs - Both can cause cancer.

As a cancer survivor, 3 times now, I wont use either of them.

As far as Stewarts System is involved: It cant be too bad, or my J3 partner and I would be sick or dead after recovering his plane a year ago!

We used it just like the video shows. I feel as good as my age will let me!

And, I plan on doing it again on my Foxy.

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

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Posted

Ed, your right, according to the MSDS it is not a carcinogen, however, it does have other ways to kill you.  My ONLY beef is that I see it a complete and total false advertizement or perhaps they elude to giving you a false sense of security when in fact, my their own MSDS it shows that the shit they say on the videos is not right.

 

I could care less what covering system you use, its your airplane.  Cover it with rice paper and duct tape if thats what flips your minnow :lol: but dont try to get me to drink the koolaid and blow smoke up my ass trying to tell me that it does not have any harmful health affects.

 

I have smoked and drank for 30 yrs, just because I have not gotten the big C yet does not make me bullet proof and I damn sure am not stupid enough to think that just because it has not happened to me yet, that it cant or it wont happen.

 

Not trying to pick a fight with ya Mr., just trying to point out the obvious.  If the shit was edible and safe it would say so on the MSDS, but in fact, it does not say that and it lists just as many health hazards as the next covering system.

 

:BC:

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Posted (edited)

Leni,

I did not say that it was safe, and their video shows the same precautions we took - just, as with any chemical, you have to use the necessary precautions and protective gear.

We had a homemade paint booth of plastic sheet for the spraying with a positive filtered airflow, and used the Tyvek suit and mask and goggles.

For the gluing and brushing UV, nothing was used except rubber gloves and our eyeglasses, in the fresh air of an open garage.

I believe that the glue and UV are probably safer to work with than the MEK systems, and the finish spray is just as dangerous as any other urethane paint system.

I am considering other finish paints in the future, like Randolph regular, and other non-urethane, although I like the gloss finish of urethane.

Not arguing with anyone - to each, their own decisions and destiny.

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri
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Posted

   Almost anything you do can be bad for your health....and sometimes the best protections are not enough I am not selling the Stewart system  because I am using three m glue and different primer and finish products I know what Ieni  is saying... it is like going into a new cell phone contract what is on the paper is not necessary what you get.... also when you pull into a gas station to get gas and on the sign it says $3.45 when you start the pump the pump says $3.50..... the $3.45 is when you use cash .... the reason I wanted to use the waterborne glue was  the way you glued the cloth on. I have tryed to use  the polytack on my cougar to do the inside side panels the glue is to fast for me and the other thing was that the primer or paint had to be the 2 part epoxy stuff witch is pretty expensive.... I thing that the covering process will be easier for me to do using the waterborne  way

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Posted

I am always open to new ways to do things - To show my age, I remember the first time we used the new, "Rubberized" Paint in our house in the 1940's. (That was what Latex paint was called back then.)

Boatworks and airplanes are a lot alike - After all, the "Fathers of American Aviation", then called the CAA, were mostly Admirals - why else would we have a red light on the port wing and a green light on the starboard, and a white light on the back!

I wish Henry Ford would have been in charge, then we would have white headlights and red taillights!

:lol:

EDMO

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Posted

I don't go back that far... but close when I was a kid I can remember our first tv it was a black and white tv and the first telephone we had was on a party line boy if you wanted to know something about your neighbor all you had to do was pick up the phone and listen to the old ladies talk they knew everything that was going on...I got my glue in yesterday and I have been working on the airframe prime and paint. Ed are you still under the weather

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