582 Exhaust joint leak fixs

23 posts in this topic

Posted

Ever since I switched to my Blue Head my exhaust joints have not lined up as well as they could have. I don't know what the difference was between the two engines but the alignment ended up slightly different. This has caused me to battle an exhaust leak. I'm pulling my exhaust manifold to inspect my pistons and rings as part of my Condition Inspection this year and I want to do something about this leak before I put it back together.

 

As you can see in this picture my muffler is mounted to my firewall using rubber isolators. These came from McMaster Carr. I'm planning on getting a few that are 3/4" of inch longer to try and get a better angle on the joint.

 

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I've already taken it apart twice and cleaned up the joints and tried to adjust it to where it would seal up with no luck.

 

Leni I know you've used valve grinding compound before. Did you just smear it all around the joint and then just work it around in a circle? What's the best way to get it to actually grind the high spots?

 

Another thing I've considered doing is going to the ball joint conversion kit. I safety wire my springs and have only ever had one break before. At $140 to do both joints this conversion is pretty spendy. It would be worth it though it though if it'll seal up the joints better.

 

http://www.cps-parts.com/catalog/eppages/balljointkit2.php?clickkey=1024035

 

Any other techniques that people have found that works to seal them up? I thought about replacing the elbow until I saw the price of one!!

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Posted

Blue magic xtreme quicksteel Put it on one side and fit them together and let it set up.. Fills in the low spots.

:BC:

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Posted

It's good to 2400 degrees.

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Posted

Will it ever come back apart?

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Posted

Slightly off topic, but is that a stock motor mount? Mie looks nothing like it on the engine mounts but I don't know if mine is correct or not. They used to sell just the ball and sockets for the 2 stroke exhaust it might be time for a new set, they do wear out eventually.

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Posted

Yeah, that mount looks different than mine. Because my muffler actually mounts to a mount coming down off the engine mount itself. So the engine and muffler vibrate/move at the same frequency whereas with this set up because the mufflers attached the firewall and the engine vibrates around the firewall, it looks like you're asking for a leak. Bryce

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Posted

That wasn't the difference I was thinking about, but since you brought it up, mounting the exhaust to the engine would keep a lot of the movement out of the system, Bolted solid to the firewall, I can see why you are getting leaks, at least put some lord mounts in there so it can move a bit, even in a snowmobile the exhaust wasn't mounted that solid, normally they just had a spring wrapped around the canister. If I remember right Dean Wilson set up your first engine I would have him look at the pictures and get his opinion.

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Posted

Yes I've looked at a MKIV and the mount is totally different. I bought this whole FWF from John Miller from the Yahoo Group many years ago and I don't really know the history behind it. The muffler does use rubber stand off mounts to hold it to the firewall but it could flex some more. I wonder if I could retrofit that piece that hangs off the later motor mounts to make it work. Can anyone post some good pictures of it? Dean is the one that did this FWF but he's never claimed to be an engine man so I'm sure it could be done better. It's worked pretty well for 4 years and 330 hrs so I'm not too worried about it though. Since I am yanking my manifold off for a piston inspection I thought I should address it and try to make it better than it is.

 

Rubber Standoffs

http://www.mcmaster.com/#rubber-standoffs/=p99fwk

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Posted

I was talking to another Avid buddy of mine yesterday and he shared with me his exhaust mounting set up. He put two studs in to substitue the head bolts. Pretty simple set up. I think I could do something like this relatively easy. Anyone know of any issues with having something hanging off the head bolts like that? If you used a stud and properly torqued a jam nut I don't see why it wouldn't work. He has a pretty sweet muff heat set up too. It's a small world... I had a deposit on this plane once upon a time.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks C5, Those standoffs were something I was looking for, and that engines exhaust mount is better than the system I have so thank you, I will try and be a little more civil in my posts from now on. How well does the exhaust heat work, I have a couple of old motorcycle radiators and robbed some computer fans out of junk computers for a heat set up that I was going to use. I learn more about the aircraft from the pictures you guys are sending, one picture can answer questions I hadn't thought of yet.

I would think that there wouldn't be any problems with the mount, If you look at some OEMs and what they hang off the engine that would be about the best way to mount the exhaust, and I love the low dollar approach of the tire tread to hang the muffler with.

http://www.aftermarketcyclepartsnation.com/Kimpex-EXHAUST-BALL-JOINT-ASSEMBLIES-detail.htm?productId=9846004#/0 this is what I was thinking you might need to replace, they do wear out

Edited by Trackwelder

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Posted

Just a thought, and I don't claim to know anything about 2cycle exhausts:

What about the flexible strap-type, clamp hangers found in auto parts stores, used to hang tailpipes and mufflers? Any way you could suspend it with one or two of those?

EDMO

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Posted

Gonna need a visual on that one Ed.

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Posted

It's a perforated rubber strap with a steel hanger on the end that uses a u bolt. It may just work perfect for these! It's probly less than 10 bucks at napa.

:BC:

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Posted

Slightly off topic, but is that a stock motor mount? Mie looks nothing like it on the engine mounts but I don't know if mine is correct or not. They used to sell just the ball and sockets for the 2 stroke exhaust it might be time for a new set, they do wear out eventually.

This motor mount is the dynasmooth  motor mount.   It absorbs more of the vibration from the two stroke engine then the earlier motor mounts did.  A later, better idea from Avid   Jim Chuk

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Posted

Gonna need a visual on that one Ed.

 

44f8_1.JPG

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Posted (edited)

Looks like you already have the info - I thought of this when remembering my 49 Ford and 55 Studebaker that I had to put new exhaust hanger on. The old ones were more of a canvas web strap then - I guess the modern ones are now rubber.

Hope this helped.

P,S. You can bend the steel strap to give you angle, offset, standoff.

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

I came across some pipe mounts for a two stroke dirt bike that would work well in this application too I think although they are a fixed length.

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Posted

In the Mark IV construction manual, in the engine section, there is a procedure for installing the muffler, that shows the factory mounts for the grey head engine.  Pretty involved set of braces and  clamps, but looks like it would be strong enough and have the engine and muffler moving together.

 

Jackak 

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Posted

I think lots of people had the factory muffler mounts break.  I know two of mine did.  If  my memory is correct, I believe John Miller's mount also broke and that is why he mounted his muffler on the firewall.  Jim

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Posted

Hmm that's interesting Jim. I think before I get too crazy I am going to get a few of those stand offs that are longer to get a better angle on the joint and then clean up the joint some and go from there. I have a huge list of projects I want to do on the plane this winter and not enough time. It's going to be especially hard considering it's been parked for the last 6 months and all I'm going to want to do is fly it when I get home. Were fortunate to have year round flying weather in CA.

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Posted

Sorry, hadn't heard about the problems.

Jackak

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Posted

....... Were fortunate to have year round flying weather in CA.

so do we... Avids fly awesome at sea level and -30F 

 

:BC:

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Posted (edited)

so do we... Avids fly awesome at sea level and -30F 

 

:BC:

But you forgot to mention Fairbanks, Tok, points beyond Anchorage where it gets down to -70 :lol:

And, the plug-ins on the parking lots where you have to start your car every 2 hours - and the planes cant shut off the engines -

Been there and done that! I miss both the good and bad of Alaska while I get sunburn down here in Mizry!

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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