Hi, I'm new to Avid Fox Flyers, looking for info and a plane

[lasnewbe 0]

Hi, I hope I am in the right section. I have been flying for 30 years in Cessna and Baby Beech products.  I would like to migrate to an Avid or KitFox that I can fold into a covered trailer and haul around the country to drive-n-fly.  I am curious about engines and airframe models.  It looks like this group knows a lot about both. Mark in Sun City West, AZ

[Av8r3400 1179]

$.02 worth of advise: Hold out for a 912 powered Kitfox IV or newer.

The design had matured by then to a great little plane and you will not find a better engine for the type than a 912. From there look for the doo-dads you would prefer.

Your budget may dictate other tid bits of advise.

[C5Engineer 1170]

Welcome to Avid Fox Flyers!

 

The first question you have to ask yourself is what is your mission? Are you wanting to just unload a plane on the side of the road and go check something out while traveling or will you also be using is as your primary plane at home as well?

 

A 912 powered Model IV cruises at 115 ish and is a bit bigger and more refined than the earlier models. They also fetch an almost double the price tag to an early, simple, two stroke powered one.

 

I would say steer clear from a Kitfox I or Avid A model. They were very basic machines. A lightweight 2-stroke powered Kitfox or Avid would be perfect for hauling in a trailer and unloading on the side of the road to go and do some airborne sightseeing. Performance and visibility is amazing. The downside is if you are planning on doing crossing country stuff they have a realistic cruising speed of 80 mph.

 

Here's some basic info to consider while looking for a bird.

 

Avid models: B, C, Mark IV

Kitfox models  2, 3, 4 The Kitfox 2 and 3 were similiar to an Avid B and C but the Kitox 4 is a totally different machine than an Avid 4. The major difference is the Kitfox 4 used the Riblett Airfoil and a different control system.

 

Avid wings are either STOL (undercambered airfoil) or Speed (flat bottom) The speedwing is unpopular unless it's been extended by 2 rib bays.

On Avids a 582 is about your best match to the airframe for STOL ops. They fly great with Subaru motors too but unless the fuse has been extended they tend to be very nose heavy and they won't get off the ground nearly as quick as a two stroke powered one. If you are ready to drop 30K one one a 912 powered Kitfox 4 like Larry mentioned is the nicest of the bunch. They are in high demand and good ones sell very quickly off Barnstormers. A 582 powered earlier model is running in the mid teens right now.

 

If I were towing one around the country I would go for as light and simple as possible but that's just me. I have a friend who does this. He has an Avid to tow behind his motorhome. A Zenith CH601 is his everyday flying machine and a Tripacer for when he goes camping with his wife and dogs. And he lives at an airpark 100 yards from the runway. Living the dream.

 

Stick around on here and don't be afraid to ask questions. The goal of this site is to be a one stop shop for all things Avid and Kitfox.

[lasnewbe 0]

Folks, thanks for the introductory advice.  I have my Beech Sundowner up for sale and am looking for the KitFox 4 or 5.  One, KitFox 5,  just popped up today on Barnstormers with a Lycoming O-235 engine @$39K.  200 hundred hours, with all white exterior paint in Denver.  Based on your experiences, does that sound like a good combination and a reasonable asking price?  Mark

[C5Engineer 1170]

Nice plane and nice panel. Its worth whatever someone will pay for it. It's a buyers market right now.

[lasnewbe 0]

I'm back looking for opinions.  I have web-found a KitFox 4 with a Subaru E-81 NSI engine.  I have heard mixed reviews on this engine.  Anyone with experience or heard credible reviews? Mark in Sun City West, AZ

[Guest]

My opinion and $5.00 might get you a simple coffee at Starbucks, but I am a believer in the 912 all the way for the kitfox 4-7's.

 

The additional weight of the big direct drive 4 strokes will kill performance way beyond what you can imagine. Most of these planes whether Avid or Kitfox that have Continental or Lycoming conversions require additional weight in the tail to reach an acceptable weight and balance. I have seen first hand the difference. Flown in a 100 HP 0-200 powered KF 5 and a 80 HP rotax KF 5 and would choose the 80 HP Rotax powered hands down for short field performance and useful load. The ONLY place the 0-200 powered KF 5 outperformed the the 80 HP rotax was solo flight cruise speed.

 

Chris

[C5Engineer 1170]

The NSI is a very heavy engine. Parts and support are also not available for it. My plane had an NSI on it when we bought it and it reamained unairworrhy for many years until we saved it and yanked all that stuff the nose, removed the 40lb weight off the tail, and put a 582 back on it.

[Av8r3400 1179]

Subaru is a better choice in a 5-7 Kitfox or an Avid that has had the fuselage mod (16" stretch) to accept the weight.

A Kitfox 4 with a (light) Subaru is a single place airplane.

The motor itself may be fine, but its not for this application. Keep looking.

[EDMO 1078]

The NSI Soob if it has the turbo, is a lot heavier than my Reductions EA-81, but also has more HP.
My Soob weighs more than the C-90 / O-200. The O-235 should be somewhere in the same weight class.
The Kitfox 5 was designed to take the "real aircraft" engines, but for STOL the Rotax cant be beat.
I extended the leading edges on my Kitfox 4.5 clone by 4 inches, and now have changed the ribs from the earlier undercambered to a modified Kitfox 4 wing to lessen the nose-down force with the heavy Soob engine.

I am hoping mine will come in about 800 empty - I cant compete with the 2-strokes for STOL, but I am used to a heavy plane in the flatlands.  It takes the bumps better in the air.
SkyPirate just bought a Kitfox 5 with 912, and said it weighed 760 empty, and was cruising at 115, but did not say how much throttle - guessing whatever % is cruise?
If you want light weight and STOL, the earlier models will do that well.
If you want x-country speed with long runways, then go for the later models, but you will spend more.
One last thought: If you ever have to fly without a medical, then your plane has to be not more than 1320 gross to qualify as an LSA.
Hope this helps a little.
EDMO

Edited 22 Jul 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[Trackwelder 12]

    Let me throw my own 2 cents in , Since you already own a nice cross country plane, I am guessing that you don't plan on selling it, find the lightest 2 stroke Model you can find, no fancy panel cylinder head temp, exhaust temp water temp and electricity, basic flight instruments and a handheld radio, the smaller and lighter planes would take off and land shorter and can be found in the $10,000 or less range, saving a lot of money for the things you want to ad. Bigger tires different landing gear floats skis or whatever you want, If you don't want to build there are still plenty in that price range.

     When you can find tri-pacers for $12,000 in annual with mid time engines why spend $40,000 on a plane that was built to perform the job of the cross country plane if you are going to trailer it.

Edited 6 Nov 2013 by Trackwelder