Talked to Dean Wilson today

[C5Engineer 1170]

I've been working on the paperwork for my Avid the last few days. My airplane was originally certified at 1085 gross. I had never heard of that as being a gross weight before so I asked Dean. He said the Hauler should have been 1050 but he said they've flown them at 1200 with no issues. He said there's no reason to change the plate for 35lbs. So I guess I have a 1085 gross hauler  ;D He's a great guy to talk with. We discussed my flap linkage too. It works the way it's supposed to according to him. The only thing he mentioned was to not let that friction washer wear out and to keep the bolt plenty tight so that there is friction on the handle all the time.

[akflyer 1427]

The original bill of sale on mine says that the gross is 1085... HOWEVER, there is no place on the FAA paperwork that says one peep about gross weight.. it does not exist for experimentals.. Nothin on the airworthines says a peep about it.. it is up to the builder.  The only thing that may indicate a gross weight would be the phase one flight test records.  As far as the FAA is concerened there is nothing in their paperwork that would indicate a gross weight.  At least not on any of the paperwork I have for mine, which is everything the FAA has as I sent off for the CD of the info they had on file.  84KF's paperwork is the same as is every other avid or kitfox I have looked at the paper work on..

[84KF 4]

"My airplane was originally certified at 1085 gross.".......

Question? Who certified it?  ...and how?

(It is Experimental Amateur-Built.  It is not, I repeat NOT certified. It does not have a TCDS. (Type Certificate Data Sheet)

"He said there's no reason to change the plate for 35lbs"....

Question?  Where does it say you need a "weight" on the Data Plate?  You don't..., not according to FAR's. Why?? Because it does not have an FAA enforceable weight limit.  Again..., it's an Experimental Amateur-Built.

Do not confuse the rules that apply to TCDS aircraft with the rules that apply to Amatuer-Built aircraft.

Damn, it good to be back again.

(Leni knows what I'm talking about.)

[akflyer 1427]

"My airplane was originally certified at 1085 gross.".......

Question? Who certified it?  ...and how?

(It is Experimental Amateur-Built.  It is not, I repeat NOT certified. It does not have a TCDS. (Type Certificate Data Sheet)

"He said there's no reason to change the plate for 35lbs"....

Question?  Where does it say you need a "weight" on the Data Plate?  You don't..., not according to FAR's. Why?? Because it does not have an FAA enforceable weight limit.  Again..., it's an Experimental Amateur-Built.

Do not confuse the rules that apply to TCDS aircraft with the rules that apply to Amatuer-Built aircraft.

Damn, it's good to be back again.

(Leni knows what I'm talking about.) 

[C5Engineer 1170]

Okay bad terminology.. When it went through the original airworthiness certificate process 1085 was on the paperwork. Here is a copy of my data plate from the original builder

Thanks for the info. It's nice to have somebody familiar with the FARs on the forum. That stuff confuses the crap out of me.

[akflyer 1427]

That may have been engraved on the data plate, but it is not needed.  Chech your paperwork and airworthiness... does it have a gross weight mentioned on it?  Mine does not.  If you have "paperwork" other than the data plate that the FAA has, I would like to see it.  I have NEVER seen any FAA certifications for experimentals that had a weight figure listed.

Snakeman

[C5Engineer 1170]

The expired Airworthiness Certificate does not have anything of course but the original application did. It's no big deal I mostly wanted to make sure I could safely operate it up to 1085 if I ever wanted to. What do you guys have your VNE marked at on your airspeed indicator? The original brochure said 95 but I know there are guys flying them up to 120. My wings are stitched so that's not a factor. I'm thinking 100 is a nice round number. Any faster than that defeats the purpose for owning and flying an Avid right?

[84KF 4]

"....but the original application did."

I hate to always play the bad guy.... but no, it did (does) not.

Ref. http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8130-6.pdf

"I mostly wanted to make sure I could safely operate it up to 1085 "

That depends on the actual construction of the INDIVIDUAL aircraft.  Eg. materials used in construction, final W&B, available power, etc. 

[akflyer 1427]

The expired Airworthiness Certificate does not have anything of course but the original application did. It's no big deal I mostly wanted to make sure I could safely operate it up to 1085 if I ever wanted to. What do you guys have your VNE marked at on your airspeed indicator? The original brochure said 95 but I know there are guys flying them up to 120. My wings are stitched so that's not a factor. I'm thinking 100 is a nice round number. Any faster than that defeats the purpose for owning and flying an Avid right?

Marking... we dont need to stinking markings...    <classic line  Mine was never marked.  I know it should have been but it is one of the things I have never gotten around to.  I have seen posted online (take it for that, hearsay) that it is kosher to bump it to 125 VNE with rib stitching.  I have flown to 120 in a shallow decent on the 2nd flight after the rebuild and the wings stayed on and fabric did not shred... that is just me.. I would not tell you to go try it in yours.  The inspector never said a word about instrument markings when he came and inspected mine.

Damn Steve, me thinks you like playing the bad guy

[C5Engineer 1170]

"....but the original application did."

I hate to always play the bad guy.... but no, it did (does) not.

Ref. http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8130-6.pdf

"I mostly wanted to make sure I could safely operate it up to 1085 "

That depends on the actual construction of the INDIVIDUAL aircraft.  Eg. materials used in construction, final W&B, available power, etc. 

Wow I better make sure I have my facts straight when I post around here eh?? I filled it in on some piece of paper I was filling out. I asked Dean about my particular airplane because he did a lot of work on it and if anybody would know he would.

[84KF 4]

C5,

"I filled it in on some piece of paper I was filling out."

Could it have been your State registration paperwork??  In Michigan we pay yearly, by the pound.

"Annual registration fee: One (1) cent per pound of the maximum gross weight or the maximum gross takeoff weight of the

aircraft, whichever is greater. Gross takeoff weight cannot be changed without written certification from the manufacturer.    http://mdotwas1.mdot.state.mi.us/public/webforms/public/4004.pdf

Despite the fact that I declare, and pay, $14.00 for a 1400 pound design limit, for the last 3 years my MI. registration cert comes back to me with the plane listed as 950 pounds gross weight.  Go figure......  Typical bureaucracy.

If you really want to see the shit hit the fan....., let's talk "Maximum Takeoff Weight" as it applies to Sport Pilots. 

This is how I fly my Series 5 as a private pilot, minus medical.  All legal.

[akflyer 1427]

hell start another thread on it LMAO.. good for another years discussion