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New Fat Avid owner

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Posted

Good Day All:

I figure it is time to surface on this forum.

I am Jim Rainbow and have just purchased an Avid Plus project from a Barnstormers ad.

 

Some info about me:

I reside in Uxbridge Ontario Canada (about 50 Kilometres or 30 miles NE of Toronto)

I am currently in the process of getting my license and have about 20 hours of lessons behind me and am loving the sport, as I knew I would.

As well as me taking lessons so are my 2 sons and soon to be Son In Law in a Challenger 2 I purchased 3 years ago which needed about 18 months worth of repairs before I could fly it.

Did a lot of work to it including repainting the fuselage after some hefty fabric repairs due to the local squirrel population taking up residence int the fuse and wings.

The Challenger is rated as Basic Ultralight in Canada which places some restrictions on its operation which I am not prepared to live with once I have my license,

The Avid is the next step for me having been approved by Transport Canada to be imported to Canada as aircraft parts and registered as a "new" amateur built aircraft, which allows me to fly without helmets and carry passengers, it also allows me to fly into the US (Oshkosh here I come !!!)

My plan is to have the Avid finished in 1 1/2 to 2 years. Which is coincidentally when I will have no further use for the Challenger as I believe by the end of this summer (2014) we will all be licensed, I then want to install the Amphibian Floats on the Challenger over the winter of 2014 /2015 and get some training for all of us on water before getting rid of the Challenger and start flying the Avid.

In my head this schedule seems to work.

 

Enough about me and now about the project.

 

I have purchased the following:

Airdale Fuselage (This is the fuselage owned originally by Mark Schindler a current member listed in the builders list)

Avid Mark IV Wings, Horizontal Stab and Elevator from a previously flown MK IV with Heavy Hauler Wings

Grove Landing Gear with Matco Brakes

A Large Roll of Dacron purchased by Mark S

The project is going to require a complete recover and paint (which I am really looking forward to as I love spray painting as a hobby), the fitting of the wings, and Horizontal Stab and Elevator to the new fuse along with all the other things I will have to do once our inspection agency sees it.

(See Pictures Below) 

Anyway, I am sure I am going to get lots of use from this forum and look forward to sharing the journey from what I have to what I see flying in my minds eye.

My plan is to update my progress via a photo journal of sorts.

Hope to interact with you all soon

PS I DO play banjo .... don't hold it against me.

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Posted

Welcome Banjoplayer, Hope you and your family enjoy your new bird.Any questions you have about it Im sure can be answered on this site.Wont hold the banjo thing against you because I play one also,only Im not good at it. Randy

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Posted

Is this by chance the ad that Bruce-somebody posted?  It was a fat avid in New York.  Had blue and white covering on the wings, red seats...

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Posted

Welcome to the board. I just joined a couple weeks ago and I'm loving the wealth of knowledge and information available here.

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Posted

Is this by chance the ad that Bruce-somebody posted?  It was a fat avid in New York.  Had blue and white covering on the wings, red seats...

Yes this is that Avid.

Bruce is still on Barnstormers with an engine mount for a Subaru engine that fits a Standard Mark IV fuse.

It would not fit the Airdale Fuse.

He owned and built the mk IV the wings and tail came from and bought the fuselage in 2005 I believe.

He is currently working on a Zenair 701 on floats which prompted him to sell the Avid Plus project.

We hammered out a deal near the beginning of December and I picked it up from his place in New York State Dec 28th.

The project has now taken over all of the garage, a significant portion of the basement and part of the back yard.

Airplanes are definitely an "In Your Face" hobby.

@ Horsepower, the only family member who isn't completely on board is the wife.

The 2nd airplane really caught her off guard.

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Posted

Welcome Banjoplayer, Hope you and your family enjoy your new bird.Any questions you have about it Im sure can be answered on this site.Wont hold the banjo thing against you because I play one also,only Im not good at it. Randy

@ Horsepower, the only family member who isn't completely on board is the wife.

The 2nd airplane really caught her off guard.

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Posted (edited)

:bday: Welcome banjoplayer. Good plan, I like the way you roll!

You have a Fat Avid upgrade fuselage from [old Airdale Aircraft] with (hopefully) Mk-IV wings and lift struts, not an Airdale Flyer fuselage or 'stretched' Avid fuselage (all different). The wings and lift struts will determine your gross weight rating. What M.T.O.W. did Bruce tell you? It can get a bit confusing, especially when adding Avid parts onto a Fat Avid upgrade fuselage, and you really have some very important safety considerations to understand. Has it ever been registered?

 

In any event, we have enough collective Avid Flyer wisdom here to provide support for you, and even have an active 'Fat Avid' specific forum if need be. Don't be afraid to ask questions, in so much as the Fat Avid fuselage upgrade never came with a dedicated builder manual. My Avid+ kit actually came with a Mk-IV manual but does have additional notes and pics specific to the Avid+ so I do what I can. Randy and Willis are already flying their planes and will be a great resource if you are planning for Sube power, and Chris is learning to love his Avid+ too. :) Looks like your project has no engine but the cowl was lengthened to accommodate something other than Rotax power perhaps?

 

I am sure all questions (yours and ours!) will be answered in time, but it is exciting to have another member join the Fat Club. Pretty soon we're going to have enough Avid+ and Fat Avid owners to have a real party, or at least convince the others that all these models actually do exist, LOL! By all means, do keep us posted on your project. Especially pictures, we love pictures and Leni promised unlimited bandwith, hehe! 

 

Doug aka Fatbastard builder kitfox flyer :BC:

 

[edit] Ha, I see we cross posted. I thought I saw Bruce hawking a Jab 2200 engine mount on BS?

BTW, if you think two was bad, you should see the reaction the third project gets!  :hammerhead:

Edited by dholly

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Posted

:bday: Welcome banjoplayer. Good plan, I like the way you roll!

You have a Fat Avid upgrade fuselage from [old Airdale Aircraft] with (hopefully) Mk-IV wings and lift struts, not an Airdale Flyer fuselage or 'stretched' Avid fuselage (all different). The wings and lift struts will determine your gross weight rating. What M.T.O.W. did Bruce tell you? It can get a bit confusing, especially when adding Avid parts onto a Fat Avid upgrade fuselage, and you really have some very important safety considerations to understand. Has it ever been registered?

 

In any event, we have enough collective Avid Flyer wisdom here to provide support for you, and even have an active 'Fat Avid' specific forum if need be. Don't be afraid to ask questions, in so much as the Fat Avid fuselage upgrade never came with a dedicated builder manual. My Avid+ kit actually came with a Mk-IV manual but does have additional notes and pics specific to the Avid+ so I do what I can. Randy and Willis are already flying their planes and will be a great resource if you are planning for Sube power, and Chris is learning to love his Avid+ too. :) Looks like your project has no engine but the cowl was lengthened to accommodate something other than Rotax power perhaps?

 

I am sure all questions (yours and ours!) will be answered in time, but it is exciting to have another member join the Fat Club. Pretty soon we're going to have enough Avid+ and Fat Avid owners to have a real party, or at least convince the others that all these models actually do exist, LOL! By all means, do keep us posted on your project. Especially pictures, we love pictures and Leni promised unlimited bandwith, hehe! 

 

Doug aka Fatbastard builder kitfox flyer :BC:

 

[edit] Ha, I see we cross posted. I thought I saw Bruce hawking a Jab 2200 engine mount on BS?

BTW, if you think two was bad, you should see the reaction the third project gets!  :hammerhead:

Hey Doug:

You are correct regarding the engine mount from Bruce, it is for a Jabiru.

Below is an excerpt from Mark Shindler on the Avid Unofficial Home Page

 

I had flown my new setup for another 60 hours when I suffered a bent fuselage in a hard landing. I took my fuselage to Florida where a friend of mine repaired the damage. 

In the meantime Steve W. offered a "fat" Avid fuselage which added 16" to the length, 4" to the width at the seat and 8"-10" in the panel. I've decided to make that upgrade.

 

It appears it is a Fat Avid Upgrade Fuselage.

It has the counter-balanced rudder (I love the looks of it) and I believe differential flaperons.

I took the liberty of checking your profile and it seems you have a few irons in the fire, along with the Fat Avid.

You are correct regarding the engine, it does not have one.

That will require a ton of research to determine what is the best (most cost effective) choice.

The Rotax 912 is the immediate choice, but seem to be pricey.

Because the aircraft is being registered here amateur / home-built, it allows me quite a few engine options.

I'll be looking for suggestions regarding the ideal power-plant, but realize it is a subjective topic on its own.

 

The wings are off of Bruce's previously registered and flown Avid Mk IV ... D? and have been fitted to the fuselage by Bruce.

I have not had them on yet but he assured me they were installed and set by him.

One thing I was not completely crazy about was that the wing spars did not line up with the cross tubes on the fuselage and he had to move the vertical pivot tubes slightly back in the cross tubes.

They are no longer center in the cross tubes, and this is something I may have to address with doublers or repositioning,

Are you aware of this problem with spar alignment?

No avionic gauges or instruments came with the aircraft.

The Mark IV was registered and flown by Bruce, so the Wings, Wing Struts, Horizontal Stabilizer and Elevator have all flown

On the MTOW, I am hoping to get it rated for 1232 pounds. (Maximum Gross Weight that can be flown with a Canadian Ultralight Pilot Permit)

The Standard Mk IV with heavy hauler wings I believe is rated for 1150 lbs

On the Canadian Aircraft Registry Website, all registered aircraft list their Gross Weight and I have found several Mk IV's rated at 545 Kilograms (= 1200 lbs)

The Airdale site says the Gross Weight can be bumped to 1400 lbs, but with your input regarding my Fuselage I may be misinterpreting it.

You indicate that there are some safety concerns I should be aware of.

Is there a forum you can direct me to that discusses them?

Are there some significant ones I need to address before starting?

It seems as though you are fairly knowledgeable with respect to Fat Avid's and any input from you would be greatly appreciated.

With the current status of Airdale, I was a little more than apprehensive about purchasing the Avid, but after perusing this forum realized that there was more than enough support to take this project on,

 

The Airdale is the production version of John Larsen's renowned "Pursang". John took his original Avid MkIV "Hauler" and highly modified it to suit the popular 4 cycle, 4 cylinder horizontally opposed 100hp Subaru EA81 auto engine. Engines now include Continental and Rotax.

Modifications to the original Avid included the following:

-Fuselage stretched by 16" to give better ground handling and CG flexibility.

-Tow piece, easy to install, 74" wide track aluminum landing gear.

-Re-raked windshield.

-Simplified control system which incorporated differential flaperon controls.

-Redesign of cockpit structure to remove tubes from behind seats giving easier access to a larger baggage area(55 gal. drum size).

-Individual, fully adjustable, easy to remove tilt and slide seats.

-Belly structure in footwell area modified to give extra leg and head room.

-Double tailspring for better resilience to rough terrain landings.

-Wider cockpit and doors to accommodate larger pilot and passenger.

-Redesigned cowling to accommodate greater range of engines.

-Modifications to Avid wing to increase Gross Weight capability to 1400 lb.

-Full stress analysis to comply with JAR regulations at 1400 lb. Maximum Takeoff Weight.

 

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Posted

Howdy banjo player, congratulations on your fat avid,I recently got mine in the air after about 2 years of building it with alot of help from friends and the guys on this forum,just working out a few bugs and it seems like a great bird.

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Posted

Welcome BanjoPlayer.  It is great to have another Fat Avid member on board!  If you read this forum much you will find I am a pretty happy with mine.  I finished mine in 2010 and have a bit over 300 hours on it now,  Willis just got his flying and hopefully JackAk will have his flying by this spring (it is just about to the point where we can bring it out to the hanger and put all the parts on it at the same time to make it an airplane).  Just keep after it every week and you will get it done.  We look forward to hearing progress reports and will try to answer any questions you have.

 

On the wing spar spacing; yes, there was a problem with the jig and the front and rear carry through tubes were set slightly too close.  It sounds like Bruce or someone remedied that by moving the rear carry through tube.  I considered that option but talked to Steve Winder about it and he recommended heating and benting the front tube ends forward slightly.  that is the option that JackAk and I chose to do and I also wended in a tab to add a little extra support in case the bending weakened it some. See the attached pics.  Moving the rear carry through should be OK if the rewelding of the collector point was done well; althjough a lot more effort and complicated.

 

Keep us posted and let us know if we can help.

 

(Oh, I own a banjo but found I have no talent for playing it)

 

Randy

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Posted

Sounded like he didn't move the carry thru tubes, rather he repositioned the vertical spar pin bushings slightly within the carry thru tube. I wouldn't think that being off center by such a small amount presents any structural concerns. Probably had to enlarge the coves cut into the spars to increase clearance for folding too. More than one way to skin an experimental cat.

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Posted

Thanks for the hearty welcome.

I am thinking I should move this exchange off of the 'introduce yourself' sub forum and into the Fat Avids one but seem to be getting good response here. 

I guess the first question I have, to those registered and flying Fat Avids, is what MTOW are you using and how did you arrive at it.

With the parts I have, c/w Heavy Hauler wings, I am trying to get it registered here in Canada at a gross weight of 1232 lbs.

Here Advanced Ultralights can be registered up to 1232 lbs and Basic Ultralights to 1200 lbs

Amateur homebuilt can be registered at any weight, however 1232 lbs is the maximum gross I can legally fly with an Ultralight Pilot Permit,

As I said previously, I have looked at the Canadian Aircraft Registry, where MTOW's are published with the registration, and have found quite a few Canadian Avid Mk IV's with Gross Weights of up to 1200 lbs.

I may have to contact them to see how they did it.

 

There is a reference to a wing modification on the Airdale site that indicates a 1400 lb gross:

-Modifications to Avid wing to increase Gross Weight capability to 1400 lb.
-Full stress analysis to comply with JAR regulations at 1400 lb. Maximum Takeoff Weight.

Is anyone aware of what the modifications are?

Since I am going to have to strip all components of fabric prior to my "pre-cover" inspection I will have the opportunity to make these mods then.

 

With regards to the Carry Through Tube spacing, yes, the vertical pivot tubes / "bushings" ??? (rear) and the front vertical attachment tubes, were all removed.

The rear ones moved back and front ones moved forward slightly in the Carry Through Tubes.

This results in the vertical tubes (front and rear) not being located center in the Carry Through Tubes.

I fretted about this pre-purchase but am getting over it now.

The Fuse is under a tarp in the backyard but I will get some pictures of what's been done soon.

I am sorting through the stuff that came with the plane and reading through the Mk IV manual before I start anything but hope to start working on it before the end of the month.

Before I can begin I have to have the MD-RA come and inspect it to ensure the 51% requirement is met for a home-built.

I envision me having to disassemble what I have piece by piece until he says "yeah, that looks like 51%" .... we'll see ... this is Canada after all.

I have applied and hope to get an inspection scheduled within the next week or so.

Anyway, so far I am delighted with my purchase and the response from this forum.

Jim R

To all you banjo-pickers out there. 

Playing excellence is in the ear of the beholder.

Just ask any Bagpiper 

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Posted

Banjoplayer,

 

The standard Avid MKIV HH wing with the .083 spars were rated by Avid at 1150 lb GW.  I talked to Steve Winder of UK Avid and Airdale when they first started (when they built your Avid+ airframe and mine) and he said that using the stock Avid HH wing on the Avid+ fusalage he would have no problem setting the GW at 1250 lb.  The Avid+ fusalage is built stronger than the Avid MKIV fusalage and even through the wing is unchanged, the overall strength is better. 

 

Not sure about the rules in Canada but Willis should be able to give you insight there on getting his signed off.

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Posted

Jim -

I realize you may not have found or gotten through all the thread topics in the Fat Avid forum yet. Link to Fat Avid forum here >> http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/index.php?/forum/27-fat-avids-avid-plus-and-airdale/

You might take a read through this thread, it explains why the Airdale Flyer mods for 1400 lb. MTOW are not directly applicable to the Avid+. Link here >> http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/index.php?/topic/264-m-t-o-w-modifications/

-------

@ MODS - how about moving all the 'after intro' posts here to a new 'banjoplayer's FatAvid' thread in the Fat Avid forum. TIA

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Posted

Jim, unfortunately im not going to be much help on registering your avid, the fuselage was cover on mine and is now still register as the avid c, I think my option is to re register it as a basic ultralight ,im in the process of having the subaru engine allowed and I believe without any paper work from the  manufacture I dont have any options of increasing my gross weight even though i believe it is the same HH wing the was on the Mark 1V

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