Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Radiator heater scoop

24 posts in this topic

Posted

Suberavid was kind enough to send me a spare radiator scoop he had so I could pull a mold off it. I got a perfect mold, but the release agent didn't release real well when I laid up the first actual part. It stuck in a few places but I was able to coax it out anyway.

Here is the first attempt at the mk IV scoop that collects the air off the back of the radiator for cabin heat.

post-2-0-58570800-1391065082_thumb.jpg

post-2-0-29710100-1391065129_thumb.jpg

post-2-0-29381600-1391065163_thumb.jpg

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Leni, 

      If you put 2 coats of Johnsons paste car wax or floor wax on your mold before using the release agent, you might get better release.

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Will that allow enough flow to cool the motor?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Ed, I tried mothers wax as that was the only car wax I had handy... Didn't work to good :lol:

Larry, the mk iv has the two in cowl radiators, and this is what avid sent out with the kits. I guess if it's cold enough out to require cabin heat, it's cold enough to keep the engine cool :lol: will find out in the next few days!

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I used a scoop exactly like that on my MKiv with 582 it worked great. Put it on when it was cold and I needed the heat in the fall and winter. Helped keep the engine warm enough in the winter too. When it got warm enough outside for the engine temp to need it removed, I didn't need the cabin heat on the plane so it workse out quite well.

It will not produce any real heat on decents when the engine is not producing power, but when cruising it does pretty well.

The scoop combined with aftermarket electric seat heaters makes a pretty comfortable setup for winter flying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Where did you happen to get aftermarket seat heaters? I'm curious about that idea!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

My plan is to use this to preheat the air going through the heat muff on the exhaust... Should give me lots of good heat! The highest I ever go is 5000 to cross the inlet then I have 70 miles to let down in a gradual descent so I don't have much time that she won't be producing good heat

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I built a heater for the Avid MK IV with 582 and ended up making a scoop to fit on the radiator to push headed air through the muffler shroud.  I made the mold for the fiberglass out of blue foam, and covered the foam with packing tape.  The fiberglass wont stick to the plastic tape and I've used that method quite a few times.  Besides if you need to, you can cut the foam out of the fiberglass after it's set up.  This pic kind of shows the scoop and the shroud.  It kind of got added to as time went on so it looks kind of cobbled up, but it sure worked!.  Jim Chuk 

 

PS,  I think I have one or two of the Avid scoops around the hangar somewhere....

post-329-0-42466800-1391115245_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Jim,

What kind of ducting are you using? I like the looks of aluminum on it rather than the typical red/orange stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

There are so many options. A google search will turn up any method you want to incorporate. There are ones that go under existing upholstry. This is just one example:

http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-628-040-Universal-Seat-Heater/dp/B002U6IL9O#productDetails

And seat cover types like this:

http://www.sears.com/wagan-12v-heated-seat-cushion/p-02814949000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=02814949000&kispla=02814949000P

Just look around on the web for car seat heaters/warmers, and make sure that the power consumption does not exceed the rating of the lighting coil minus the accessories you already have drawing power. The ones with back heat and seat heat draw more power than seat heat only. Just be careful that you do not choose one(s) that draw too much power. They really work well. One of the nicest winter flying comforts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The power draw won't be a problem since the Subaru engine has a full alternator and battery.

 

I was more curious as to what type you used and where you decided to get them from. I can see the allure of the seat cushion type though, remove it when it's not needed.

 

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I've been thinking of the seat heaters in the mangy fox project.... I sure like them in the car.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The ductwork on my heater setup was 2" aluminum flexduct bought at a carparts store.  I think most of them carry it.  It costs about $7 for a piece that can expand to about 16 or 18" so it's not a lot cheaper than scat, but I didn't have to order it.     On the topic of electric heaters, I used to use a seat heater from JC Whitney that worked real well.  Cost $20.  and had a high and low setting.  I used it in my Himax and flew all winter in northern Mn.  I would slide in into the back of my snowmobile suit and I had to run it on the lower setting or it would get to warm.  Jim Chuk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

On the news today :  Toyota telling dealers to stop selling 8 models of new cars because.......Seat heaters causing fires!

EDMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

ok guys riddle me this one.  I put the scoop on the radiator and piped it into the heat muffs then into the cabin.  I got about 1/4 the air flow using the scoop on the back of the radiator, versus just using a 2" round collector wired to the back side of the radiator.  As in I lost a ton of airflow using the scoop!  And I put baffles around the outside of the radiator sealing it off to the cowling so all the air had to go through the radiators.

 

I pulled the scoop off when I was at the lodge and just wired the scat tubing to the back of the radiator about in the middle of it and I had good air flow again.... I spent a few drinks pondering why it was doing that, but gave up on it and just went back to drinking and playing cards in a nice warm lodge. 

 

Is the air flowing into the heat muffs slowing it down enough that its causing a "bubble" to form in the scoop and not letting the air flow through?

 

I may try to put the scoop on the other side and have the hose come directly into the cabin so there is no restrictions and see how that works.  Maybe I can get hot air from the muff and volumes of warm air from the radiator to move the air around the cabin better :dunno:

 

:BC:

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

On the news today :  Toyota telling dealers to stop selling 8 models of new cars because.......Seat heaters causing fires!

EDMO

 

Good thing they didnt stop selling planes just because a few of them crash every week. 

 

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Leni,  not sure what to say about your airflow problems.  Mine worked pretty good.  I did have one 2" diameter tube coming in and two 2" tubes going out of the heat shroud.  Can you post a pic of your muffler shoud and how the scoop is attached to it?  Jim Chuk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Jim, I am 800 miles away from the plane right now, but when I get home on the 18th I will get some new pics.  My laptop died so I dont have any of the pics here with me at work. 

 

I can make a cute drawing of it and post it up in a bit to give you an idea of what I have going on.

 

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I wanna see cute airplane drawings!!

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

ok guys riddle me this one.  I put the scoop on the radiator and piped it into the heat muffs then into the cabin.  I got about 1/4 the air flow using the scoop on the back of the radiator, versus just using a 2" round collector wired to the back side of the radiator.  As in I lost a ton of airflow using the scoop!  And I put baffles around the outside of the radiator sealing it off to the cowling so all the air had to go through the radiators.

 

I pulled the scoop off when I was at the lodge and just wired the scat tubing to the back of the radiator about in the middle of it and I had good air flow again.... I spent a few drinks pondering why it was doing that, but gave up on it and just went back to drinking and playing cards in a nice warm lodge. 

 

Is the air flowing into the heat muffs slowing it down enough that its causing a "bubble" to form in the scoop and not letting the air flow through?

 

I may try to put the scoop on the other side and have the hose come directly into the cabin so there is no restrictions and see how that works.  Maybe I can get hot air from the muff and volumes of warm air from the radiator to move the air around the cabin better :dunno:

 

:BC:

 

 

 

Okay here's my thought:

 

With the scoop on, you are forcing all of the air going into the opening at the front of the cowl to go through the radiator then through all of your heating ductwork, right?  

 

WIth the scoop off, some of the air goes around the wired on scat tube, just through the radiator into the engine compartment, right?

 

I think the "bubble" or high pressure restriction you are forming is in front of the radiator.  I will bet that the motor ran warmer with the scoop on, too.  The opposite side radiator may have been enough to keep the motor in the green, but I'd bet there was no flow going through the radiator with the scoop on it.  The air was going right over and around the opening in the front of the cowl.

 

 

I'm only on my third drink, so let me have a couple more and this might get more detailed….

 

 

Cute airplane drawing:

 

hello_kitty_flying_airplane_coloring_pag

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I think Larry may be the winner here.  The restrictions in the 2 heat muffs may be such that its putting a bubble in front of the radiator.  If I just run the hose from the scoop straight to the cabin and bypass the heat muffs I may be getting a good bit more airflow. 

 

It was 7 degrees OAT and the engine temps never went about 130 during an hour and a half cruise.  I didnt notice a difference in temps having the scoop on versus having it off.  I did note that I needed to block some air flow through the radiators so I could get the temps up to the 150-160 range.

 

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Thanks Larry I waited all day for that and Leni didn't deliver!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

:lol: sorry Joey, I got caught up in work and had to go out and deal with another contractor at the clients request. I will try and get it sketched up this am before they drop another poop bomb on me..

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I may have a 582 rad scoop in a couple of days - donno what I am going to do with it - was in some parts I bought - Joey, if you need a photo, let me know.

EdMO

Well, the scoop arrived - thought it was the type with the hole and flange for a heater, like Leni was making, but looks like it may be the scoop that goes on the side of the cowl, like Joey's.  Maybe I will find some use for it?

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0