Choice of radiators on 582

[Jon 2]

Me again, with my project (Avid Mark IV Heavy Hauler/582) I received two small radiators that attach to each side of the "C" drive.  I also received a belly radiator with housing, it looks to be larger. 

 

What experience have you had with either one?  Does the belly location improve cooling? Does the belly radiator improve the weight distribution?

 

Jon

[BryceKat 125]

I use the 2 mounted to the c drive and they definitely have to be baffled off if flying above 75 degrees. Bryce

[1avidflyer 1983]

My last MK IV had foam around the perimeter of the cheek radiators to make the air go through the radiators, and it did cool better than the other Avids I had with cheek radiators and no extra baffeling.   Looks like an easy solution to me, as it's self fitting.   Jim Chuk 

[akflyer 1427]

I changed mine from the belly radiator to the MK IV in cowl radiators.  I did not baffle them originally and it would get up to 175-180 in a long hard climb.  Last week I put the baffles around them so all the incoming air would be forced through the radiators.  Granted, I was still only flying at 25 degrees OAT, but I never went above 140 in a long hard climb, and I will have to put some tape on the radiators to get them to let the engine get up to temp in cruise as I was barely able to maintain 120 at 6200 RPM with EGTS leaned to 1175.  By baffling the radiators, I got a solid 30-40 degree reduction in engine temps.

 

I like the cleaner look of the incowl radiators and I am not likely to drag them through the brush anymore

 

[allonsye 85]

I'm still working on my FWF project - bought it this way. I didn't fly it when the PO had it and operating w/3 radiators mounted (2 in cheek and 1 on the belly). But to reassemble it like this seems an enormous amount of overkill and extra weight.  There's no doubt either that the in-cowl radiators make for a cleaner nicer looking airplane.

 

But there's one thing that bugs me enormously about the the cheek radiator set up - THE HOT AIR COMING OUT OF THEM AND GOING TO THE CARB INTAKES AND CREATING A HP rob. 

 

So w/that no-no in mind, and short of having to carve up the cowl and create a cool-air intakes; I've assembled mine with just the belly radiator. We'll see when I finally run this thing up how it goes. My concern is that it will inadequately cool. It's not very large.

 

 

 

 

What it looked like when i got it. A line went from the expansion tank to one side of the L/hand cheek, out to the R/hand cheek, down to the belly then back to the pump. The cheeks are now out of the equation.

 

Akflyer - Have you noticed any changes in engine power while fidling w/you radiator set up, particularly after baffling?

Edited 6 Feb 2014 by allonsye

[akflyer 1427]

No sir, but then again, I only flew it in relatively cold air.  I think I remember seeing one guy on here that pretty much took a large tupperware container and cut out the back side of it and slipped it over his carbs and then ran a scat hose to a scoop in the cowling to give him a fresh air intake.. I dont see it as being that big of an issue cause lots of Avids MK IV's are flying with the in cowl radiators and no fresh air  to the carbs...

 

[allonsye 85]

No sir, but then again, I only flew it in relatively cold air.  I think I remember seeing one guy on here that pretty much took a large tupperware container and cut out the back side of it and slipped it over his carbs and then ran a scat hose to a scoop in the cowling to give him a fresh air intake.. I dont see it as being that big of an issue cause lots of Avids MK IV's are flying with the in cowl radiators and no fresh air  to the carbs...

 

Love the scat hose/tupperware solution. It would be fairly simple I suppose to incorporate that with a readily available NACA duct installed in the cowl. Thanks for sharing.

[Av8r3400 1178]

I hope that you are not using all of that extremely heavy copper piping to plumb this in...

[allonsye 85]

I hope that you are not using all of that extremely heavy copper piping to plumb this in...

It's actually not that heavy - I've reused the old ones but shortened them quite a bit. What's really HEAVY is the vintage copper radiators.

 

I've thought about using PEX tubing however.

 

Suggestions?

[Trackwelder 12]

There is a guy selling Kitfox aluminum radiators on Ebay for under $300 and I may just try one, I am selling off a lot of my Haley parts on ebay and am actually looking like I might finish the Avid this spring, my firewall forward was set up with the larger radiator on the belly and was flown in the Midwest so it would probably do the job, I would prefe to have the Mark IV cowl just for looks, but I am not that rich yet.

[Av8r3400 1178]

Highwingllc.com The guys name is Lowell Fitt. A pretty good guy to deal with. He has quite a few innovative products on his website.

Edited 7 Feb 2014 by Av8r3400

[EDMO 1078]

Joey, C5E,  was talking about getting one of the Chinese all-aluminum belly radiators - believe he thinks they will cool better, and of course, that they are probably lighter.

EDMO

Edited 7 Feb 2014 by Ed In Missouri

[allonsye 85]

Jon -

 

Your thread has prompted me to rethink and reconstruct my cooling system.

 

Now my dilemma is whether to go with cheek radiators or go w/the belly mount *sigh*.

 

Paul

Edited 7 Feb 2014 by allonsye

[Av8r3400 1178]

IMO - The cheek radiators would be fine for you.  Less tubes and piping, less drag and better looking.  I don't think the under cowl temp will be enough to matter for the carbs or a significant power loss.  A side benefit: no icing.

[allonsye 85]

IMO - The cheek radiators would be fine for you.  Less tubes and piping, less drag and better looking.  I don't think the under cowl temp will be enough to matter for the carbs or a significant power loss.  A side benefit: no icing.

I'm leaning in this direction.

 

I found an interesting article about carb icing. Does not happen often w/slide carbs. Explained here:

http://www.cps-parts.com/cps/pdf/Part44.pdf

[Jon 2]

Thanks for all your advice.  I think I will go with the cheek type and add baffles.  It looks like it will reduce drag and still do the job of cooling.  I plan to hang on to the other radiator to see if we are correct.

 

I need a gas lift strut for my one door, the old one is shot, where can they be purchased?

[SuberAvid 617]

I was able to get gas lift shocks that matched at the local auto parts store (ORieleys).  They have a bunch of them on a rack and I sorted through them until I found ones that were the right pressure and open /closed length.  If they have a socket for a ball end you can make the ball bolt by rounding off the head of an Allen head screw.  The are all stiffer when new and lighten up after they are used for a little bit.

[dynomike 91]

if you do have to order the shock strut try mc master carr, huge selection

[C5Engineer 1170]

McMaster Carr part numbers

 

9416K122 2 Each

Gas Spring With Threaded Ends, 40 Force, 8.15" Extended Length, 3.54" Stroke

[Jon 2]

This is what I ended up doing on the gas struts.  I found NAPA auto parts had a strut of the same lenth as the old strut, however the stroke was short.  I exchaged them with a 10 inch strut number 8195515  which is 40lbs of load. Mounting did take some work as the bottom mount requires a bolt about 2 inches long.  I machined the head down on a 1/4 " bolt to fit the cavity on the strut.  The top worked fine with the ball but I did need to drill out the door bracket to 5/16" to accomodate the bolt on the ball  .  There are two mounting holes in the door I used the hole closest to the door frame. It only took 3 trips to town (20 miles round trip).  It is mounted and it works.  Again, thanks for the guidance. 

 

PS: I did have a strut from Aircraft Spruce Which is a 10" unit but I like the ball retainer sustem better on the NAPA unit to hold the bolt head.

 

Jon

[allonsye 85]

_{Jon -}

 

_{How's your radiator install project coming along? Are you indeed going w/the just the cowl install?}

[1wise1 1]

FYI  I was in need of a couple of things and Highwing LLC has closed.   Their website refers people to

Mark at AeroBuilders in Caldwell, Idaho. 208-454-4158

[EDMO 1078]

If you post your needs on here, there is a good chance someone has one, or knows where to get it.

EdMO