Superflite revisited

[RDavidson 183]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to revisit my comments on Superflite and update my opinion.

I got off to a rough start, as stated in a previous thread, when I discovered that the glue to MEK mixture was printed incorrectly in the manual and DVD. I had already coated my wing with the wrong mixture so it took me a couple of days to clean all the glue off...not fun!

Now, I have almost finished the tapes on my first wing and I am really happy with the way it is looking! I have used The Polyfiber system in a class and on a small covering job and the two systems are very similar through the taping stage. Superflite might have a small advantage because it's glue is tinted bluish green and that makes it easier to see the glue saturate the fabric.

More cons...there isn't much support for this product. There are very few you tube vids using superflite and the manual is very generic. So, I have had a lot of specific questions that I can't find answers to.

Another con is their reinforcement tape. It is less porous than the Polyfiber tape and I don't like how the glue sits on it.

Anyway, here are some pics of the progress. By the way, rib stitching was not as difficult as I had remembered, but after a hundred or so knots it mysteriously gets easier

[Av8r3400 1179]

So, better, but still not real positive?

[SuberAvid 617]

That is looking good Ron.  I used the Superflight glue system and liked it better than the Polyfiber.  Much less sticky way to do it by brushing it on, letting it dry, laying on the fabric or tape and brushing the thin glue/MEK to penetrate and disolve the glue underneath.  I was planning to use the paint but they were having some real shipping problems to AK at the time and I could not get it after several attempts and used the Polyfiber paint system instead.

[RDavidson 183]

Av8r3400,

I think it is easier/better for the reasons Randy stated, but the lack of user references make me give it a thumbs down for a first time user. I'm sure that after I finish this project, I will have a full understanding of how to use their product and I will argue that it is better than the others, because I used it Isn't that what we do here? Ha!

The big advantage I see in using Superflite comes after taping. Instead of poly brush and poly spray coats, Superflite uses a UV primer that is sprayed. Also, Superflite top coat is shinny unlike the original Polyfiber finishes...but I think Poly fiber has a new line of shinny finishes or at least I thought I heard that.

Randy,

It is good to know that the Polyfiber paint is compatible, I mean it should be, all the chemicals are basically the same.

So did you use poly brush and poly spray then the poly top coat?

I know that Superflite is proud of their paint, and of course the colors I like are the most expensive colors!

Randy, did you run a tape over your false ribs? I'm asking a little late because I already did it, but I would like to know for future projects.

I wasn't going to do it, but I was worried that just the fabric covering the false ribs would get worn through.

Thanks,

Ron

[SuberAvid 617]

Hey Ron,

 

Sorry about being so late getting back to you.  I taped over every place teh fabric touched a hard point.  I think it protects it, obviously, but should also make the facric last longer by distributing the load on the fabric.  I used the whole Polyfiber system for the paint with polybrush, polyspray and aerothane (the shiny stuff) and applied it exactly per the manual with brushed and sprayed double cross coats.  It turned out great (Jack says it looks like I dipped it in plastic) but I think it added more to the weight than I would like.  I am sure that Polyfiber likes it but I wonder if the more experienced fabric painters know how much they can reduce the application and still get a long lasting paint job?

Edited 28 Feb 2014 by SuberAvid

[EDMO 1078]

Are any of those "new, shiny" paints without the dangerous chemicals?

EDMO

[SuberAvid 617]

Aerothane is deadly; polyisocyanurate or something like that.  I used a supplied air repirator when painting; a filter respirator is not sufficient.

[Av8r3400 1179]

Aerothane is deadly; polyisocyanurate or something like that.  I used a supplied air repirator when painting; a filter respirator is not sufficient.

 

 

You mean the same sh!t that is in Stewarts' paint, right?  The same stuff that's in DuPont Imron...

[RDavidson 183]

Thanks Randy. No worries on being late, you were doing what I want to be doing...flying! Those are great pics you posted!

[RDavidson 183]

I finally started painting and was surprised to see that the Superflite System 7 primer/UV Block was white. I guess I was expecting silver. However, it sprayed on smoothly and is looking good! The directions have me putting on 2 coats of primer and sanding between coats. I'm excited to see the topcoat go on!

My spray booth is working great and I think I have finally figured out my spray gun (better knock on wood)

Well, got to get back to it!

Ron

[EDMO 1078]

Part of my schooling was a trip to the tie-down parking on Merrill Field, which is right next to UAA Aviation, and to look at a plane which looked great from a distance, but up close it was a lot of cracked paint, from putting on the paint too thick.

EDMO

[RDavidson 183]

Ed,

That is a great point! The first primer coat is very thin so that it soaks into the weave. The next coat of primer is a little thicker. However, in the scheme of thinks, I think Superflite ends up being the same thickness as poly fiber.

Ron

[RDavidson 183]

Well I have everything primed except for the fuselage and I have to say that this Superflite primer is some cool stuff! It is very forgiving! I have put it on a little to thick in an area or two and instead of drying in ripples or something it actually settles out flat and looks good! Sanding is very easy and you can easily sand a drip off of it. I also had dropped some sweat on it and the paint underneath dried smoothly and only a light dirty spot remained on the surface, which sanded off with 400 grit.

The only trouble I had in the beginning was selecting the proper needle and nozzle for my spray gun. I found that 1.4 works the best with their recommended thickness of paint/reducer.

The primer has UV block in it, so it is one less coating than Polyfiber (Polybrush and Polyspray). Superflite claims that you can directly spray their Primer on fiberglass, as long as it is not Gel coated, and it will fill pinholes. I found that it doesn't fill pinholes well at all, so you will have to use some filler to get the pinholes smoothed out.

Aluminum pieces have to be treated and coated with epoxy primer, then you can paint the Superflite top coat.

I just purchased the 3 gallons of Piper Cub Yellow, 1 quart of Intense Black, 2 quarts of catalyst, and 1 gallon of reducer and it cost me a little over $1400!!! So, I think Superflight costs almost double of what Polyfiber would cost.

I have been disappointed with some mistakes in there instruction manual. However, they always get materials to me in just a couple of days when I order and they are friendly and knowledgeable. But a big downside has been the lack of info on their website which they have had "under construction" for over a year. Now there website is one page saying that a new website is coming soon! It really makes me wonder if they are going to close the doors anyday now!

Anyway, I hope this info will help the next guy! I'll let you know how the top coat goes.

[High Country 69]

Looking good Ron!!  As you now know this is a very rewarding part of the whole build. I like that the primer is white should save you some time and weight in the end. Using the Stewarts system I had to paint white over the gray primer just to paint it yellow again. with your white primer it would save you this extra step. keep the pics coming you will be in the air in no time. I can't wait to hear how those wing tips effect flight and what gains you get from them. keep up the nice work .

[akflyer 1427]

SWEEEEEET  We love seeing progress pictures!  Keep at it and you will be in the air in no time. 

 

[wypaul 448]

The easiest way to fill pinholes is to squeegee the fiberglass with neat epoxy before you do any priming or painting. Any kind of filler will bridge the hole and then it reappears when you sand it.

[EDMO 1078]

Ron,

You have stated that the primer coat was white, and I read in one of my catalogs, I think it was WICKS, that the primer coat is the same chemical as the fabric, and NOT a UV Blocker - It said the UV Block is in the finish coat paint.

From the prices I have seen, there are lots of cheaper paints available. I was thinking about using the primer and then going to a different brand of finish paint, but guess I will do the silver UV coats instead, because Stewarts UV coat may be OK with Avgas, but not with Mogas.

Glad you are progressing - hope to see the finished plane soon.

EDMO

Edited 1 Nov 2014 by Ed In Missouri

[RDavidson 183]

Thanks for the encouragement guys!

Paul, I'm going to try the neat epoxy on my fuselage boot cowls, thanks for the tip!

Ed, you might be right, I can't remember which one had the UV blocker in it, I think I just assumed it was in the primer. I'll look it up.

High Country, I have been joking that I'm going to leave it primed because it is actually off white and hides all of my mistakes! So you had to paint white over the gray prime to keep the gray from darkening the yellow?

I learned that the hard way painting over green treated aluminum with white top coat...looked great in the hangar, but roll it out in the sun and the white turned grayish! Luckily it was only on two of the panels!

Thanks again,

Ron

[RDavidson 183]

Ed,

Wicks is wrong unless they are selling an older system paint of Superflite.

Superflite System 7, SF7500 is used as "Fabric Filler, Primer, and UV Block" according to the current manual. The top coat might still have some uv block properties, but it isn't listed like that...

Like I said, it might be different for the older systems, including dope systems.

Ron

[EDMO 1078]

Ron,

Thanks for clarifying - Wicks could have listed System 6 ?? Stewart has both a gray primer and a white - The white is not a UV blocker and needs to be applied over the gray before painting yellow or red finish colors, but the gray will crinkle under the finish coat if Mogas gets on it, and that is bad. Fortunately, we burn only Avgas in the J3, so never had a problem yet.

EDMO

When you sprayed the primer, did you have to use a viscosity #2 cup, or just mix and guess?

EDMO

Edited 1 Nov 2014 by Ed In Missouri

[RDavidson 183]

Ed, yes I did. I used the #4 ford viscosity cup, but the manual uses the #2 Zahn as well.

The #2 Zahn rate for priming the fabric is:

17" for the penetration coat

23" for the second coat

For Fiberglass:

17" with #2 Zahn

I would use the viscosity cups on the first batch then just replicate the mix ratio on the following batches.

I would add a slight bit more reducer because it seemed to evaporate when spraying at the higher temperatures, but just a touch more.

I found multiple batches helped reduce waste from mixing too much. Multiple batches helped keep the consistancy steady because it was not cooking off due to catalyst reaction and reducer evaporation. Max time of use is one hour in the manual, but I found 30 minutes to be optimal, 45 minutes if you wanted to stretch it!

The main issue I had was getting my spray gun nozzle and needle right. I am using the stand alone Citation 4stage turbine respirator/ sprayer with an Axis spray gun. I found the 1.4mm needle and nozzle worked best for the primer. I started with 1.0 and it was way to small.

I hope that helps,

Ron

[RDavidson 183]

Well, I finally got some color on it!

I like the Superflite topcoat...easy to paint! Of course I screwed it up right off the bat, but that is normal for me!

You want to thin it with Superflite's reducer, but a little to much reducer makes it run. Not enough reducer you get Orange peel.

[EDMO 1078]

Ron,

Paint looks good - Something don't look right to me at the Windsheild area - I only see one diagonal brace, and every other plane I have seen had two, usually in a "V" or making an "X" ??

EdMO

Edited 25 Nov 2014 by Ed In Missouri

[akflyer 1427]

Ummm, I see a v like all the rest of the planes. You need new glasses or less bud light

She is looking good and getting closer to the air every day!

[1avidflyer 1983]

At a quick glance, the further V tube blends into the door post on that side, but it's there. But I can make it disappear if I take my glasses off. ;-) Jim Chuk