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Posted

I'm kind of torn.  :angeldevil:

I really like the idea of a very light plane like Bandit has.  There are many benefits to this, not the least of which is cost.

However...

I also like the idea of a 912 and maybe a little "bigger" airplane for a better ride and a few 'creature comforts' like more sound deadening and insulation, a radio, GPS, electric trim, etc., etc. for more cross country capability.

Would anyone like to discuss the merits of either school of thought?  I'm getting closer and closer to making a decision on which way I want to go and I'd like to get some other people's thoughts to see if my thinking may be flawed.

:beerchug:

Thanks.

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Posted

What do you plan on doing with the plane.  Are you planning any short field stuff or mostly pavement pounding?  You would not beleive the difference a hundred pounds will make in the kitfox or avid.  I would love to have a 912, but am not about to lay out the $ for it.  For me it is not worth it.  Itrust a 2 stroke and maintain it just as it should be... like my life depends on it.  This does not mean I am crapping my pants with every flight thinking it is going to wuit on me.  I never think about an engine failure unless I am over open water and cant glide to the other side :lol:  I do this in "certified" planes with lycomings too so that does not really come into play here.

If you are looking for a cross country plane think speed wing.  I normaly cruise about 70-75 mph ground speed on my GPS.  This is very comparable to a Tailor Craft or a stock super cub.  If you are a bigger guy, look for a kitfox model III or an avid "C" or "D" as they have more shoulder room (39" versus 36"). 

I was out this weekend with myself, the wife and full tanks (36 gallons) plus a 25 pound survival gear bag, a 15 pound tool bag and 30 pounds of camping gear.  I had no issues getting off the snow (about a 200' take off roll)  and still climbing out about 600' FPM.  Cruise at 5600 was 4.8 gallons an hour and 72 on the ground speed.  My Avid "C" is a PIG at 581#.

:beerchug:

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Posted

Intended mission of the plane:

Flying fun (therapy?), mostly solo, off of my ~800' strip on my property.  Grass and/or snow.  My Avid/Kitfox mentor is a big-time float-flyer, but I haven't yet crossed over to that side of things, but who knows, someday...

From my research, I think I'm looking for and Avid C or later (for size and 912-ability) or a Kitfox IV or later (also for size and more importantly to avoid the Denny "designs" and their poor handling characteristics).

I'm not opposed to a 2-stroke, but I would prefer a 4-stroke and I know I need the cabin space of the "larger" planes.

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Posted

I must be old school but my KF model 1 at 519 lbs exibits no bad habits and always goes where I

piont it, unless I am to close behind leni, talk about turbulance (from that other site)

If it does have some "BAD", I guess I learned to deal with them with out knowing they were there.

Bob

:french11:

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Posted

Maybe unique would be a better choice of words than 'bad'.  :shitfan:

[No offense intended to the early KF owners/planes out there.]

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Posted

LOL

Surly, no offence taken.

I think the Fox 1, in my opinion,is more just for play.

The two big deals with mine are the door opening is smaller and the fush is narrow.

Once your in side, leg room is plenty. I'm chunkie so me getting in looks a little like the

monkey/football thing.

Once I'm home from San Diego I have a Fox 111 to start building that these problems have been solved,

door bottom flattened, wider fush. I hope to mod the 111 to 1V controls to fix other issues.

Bob

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Posted

Maybe correct me if I'm wrong, but I was told that:

The KF IV was a ground up redesign, once Denney-Aerocraft was large enough to employ a couple of real aeronautical engineers who designed out some of the quirkiness of the earlier models. This is when the break from the Avid-clone design happened.

Dean Wilson (Avid) is a designer, Dan Denney (Kitfox) is an innovative salesman. (I'm told.) That is not to take anything away from the accomplishments of either man.

------

I too, am a little svelte in the mid-section (IE - I'm a fatass) at 240-ish pounds.  That's why I would like to get into the larger cabin right away so that I don't get discouraged by the "cozy" design that won't allow me to share the fun...

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Posted

I've been told the samething.

I don't know when the split was tho

Bob

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Posted

It sure would be fun to have a MarkIV Bandit with a 582 in it. If you are going mostly solo out of a 800ft strip this would be a great airplane. A Bandit with a 503 would work great to. The only thing bad about a 503 is you loose a few inches of leg room. I am only 5' 8" so this works for me. So far my 503 has been trouble free. I do run it according to Rotax specs though. Change plugs at 25 hrs., cab sockets show any signs of cracks replace them, change fuel filters every year ect. It cost you a few bucks to do this but I have around 700hrs of trouble free time on my 503. A 912 would be nice, but way to much money for me. The 582 or the 503 is so easy to install. If you look under the cowling of a airplane that has a 912 in it, it looks way to complicated for me. I like to keep things simple.

Bandit

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Posted

"If you look under the cowling of a airplane that has a 912 in it, it looks way to complicated for me."

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder..."  (3rd century BC, Greek)

I understand the concern for the initial cost..., but all things considered, the 912UL is quite basic. All the water hoses/tubing and oil lines seem intimidating at first, but one gets used to it.

And..., my cruising fuel burn per hr is typically less then 3.5 gph.

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Posted

Very nice, 84KF.  Is that a IV or V?  What is you empty weight on that bird?

Bandit, do you have any photos of your motor install as a comparison?

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Posted

It's a Series 5.

Empty weight....  762 lbs +/-

Note: I was only weighing for Empty Weight at the time..., that's why the tail wheel is on the ground.

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Posted

84K

That is a nice installation, Looks as simple as you could get it.  I will try to get some pictures of mine this weekend. I ordered the new F7A's and would like to get them in along with my new double tail spring.

Bandit

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