best battery for NO electric start

[High Country 69]

I was originally planning not to have a battery at all but with my MGL engine monitor I need one now, guess it will be good for the radio and gps as well, anyways what would be the best bang for the buck and keeping the weight down. I'm currently running a 532 but will eventually upgrade to the 582 in a year or so but still plan to keep the pull start. I was considering this one http://www.crazedpilot.com/8oz-12volt-life-lithium-battery-for-aircraft-with-no-electrical-systems-for-lighting-radios-and-more/%C2'> but not to sure about the lithium and can I just charge it off the engine rather than having to plug it in after use? any other better options I should consider without breaking the bank?

 

-Robert-

[akflyer 1427]

http://www.crazedpilot.com/2-4lb-aircraft-battery-for-rotax-912-912uls-lithium-iron-phosphate-like-aerovoltz-only-cheaper/

 

http://www.uflyit.com/new_page_57.htm

 

I would go for one of the lithiums if I was going to be building light.  I am going to see how the EarthX battery works out for Randy and will probably be going that route, but I want amperage for cold starts here when its -30. 

[BryceKat 125]

Check and make sure that the charging system from the airplane is not going to fry the lithium battery. The charging system is set up for a lead acid type battery, and lithiums are a whole different ballgame. More than one RC'er has burnt his house down not paying attention to how he was charging his lithium batteries

[akflyer 1427]

The ones they have for the planes have built in charging systems.  They are being used in 2 stroke planes a lot.... also, I have had a few fires with the RC plane batteries.  In the beginning the 1320 qualcoms we stole out of cameras were the hot ticket, but they were made like a normal AA battery.. when they got overloaded they turned into grenades.  That made for some spectacular foam showers when your plane blew up in the air.  Next were lithium polymers, they did not explode, but they would burn very nicely when overloaded... yep, got a few planes coming down in flames... the new LI FE batteries are MUCH more tolerant to overloading and not as volatile.

 

The only thing holding me back from having one in m y plane right now is use in the cold temps.  They wont put out the juice when they are cold and with the clutch hand propping is not an option yet.

 

 

[EDMO 1078]

Those 680 batteries - are they dry-cells? - and does your alternator system charge them just like lead-acid batteries?

EDMO

[akflyer 1427]

The pc680 is an AGM battery and yes, they charge like a normal battery and can be mounted in any position.

 

[SuberAvid 617]

I just picked up my EarthX battery at the show yesterday and learned a few more things about it.  It is the L I FE (Lithium Iron Oxide) like Leni said and is a lot more stable than other lithium types.  It has the built in circuitry that keeps the battery cells all balanced continually while charging (from the alternator or any charger).  It also cuts off the charge if it goes over 16 volts and automatically kicks back in when the charge drops to under 16 volt so it protects the battery.  If the battery does somehow get severe over voltage it "plumps" it rather than causing a nuclear meltdown and fire.  Plumping it just causes the plates to separate and the battery goes dead.  One additional feature of the EarthX is that the cases are made of a flameproof plastic material so they don't burn.  You cannot connect them in parallel with lead batteries though since the lead batteries are normally charged at 12.5 volts and the EarthX are normally charged at 14.5 volts. the lead battery will run the EarthX battery down when they are connected together.

 

The battery is a true 3.5 lbs plus has been performed very well in snowmachines for years, supposed to work fine at -30.  The PC680 has 520 peak cranking amps and 170 CCA's; the EarthX ETX36 has 680 peak cranking amps and 405 CCA's.

[akflyer 1427]

Randy, is anyone up here going to be carrying the earthX or do you have to order and have trucked up?

 

[akflyer 1427]

http://earthxmotorsports.com/shop/etx6a/

 

If you just want one for running radios, this thing is under a pound.  Its going to be hard to beat something like this for the money and weight!

 

[High Country 69]

Thanks for all the input I just ordered the earth x ETX 6A under 1 pound and only 135 bucks shipped to the door. hope its works out as good as it sounds. its also made here in good ol USA which is worth something to me.

 

-Robert-

[High Country 69]

Leni, Earth X has $5.99 flat rate shipping anywhere that would be pretty hard to beat

[akflyer 1427]

your pushing me hard to hit the buy now button!    I dont mind loosing 10+ pounds with one small change.  If only it was that easy for me to loose the 10 pounds

 

[SuberAvid 617]

Ther are a couple of places in Anchorage who are dealers for them (can't remember who except ATV Salvage in ER) but they are on their web site as dealers.

 

They have a new jumper battery coming out next month and had one at the show; it is about 1" wide by 2" tall and 6" long and weighs about 9 oz if I remember right.  It looks kind of like a little flashlight and has an LED flashlight built into one end but the cool thing is it has a port that you plug one end of the jumper cable leads into and they have about a foot of cable with good high quality alegator clamps on the ends.  It puts out 220 CCA for jump starting.  Plus it has a port for charging /operating the typical electrical devices such as cell phones, camers, laptops, etc.  I think it might just take the place of my 20 lb jumper battery I carry in the plane in the winter.

Edited 6 May 2014 by SuberAvid

[akflyer 1427]

9 oz back up battery... it just dont get much better than that!  Randy, your killing me!  That seems like the perfect solution to us guys running a clutch who are scared to death we are going to leave a master on or something stupid like that and find ourselves out in the middle of no where with no way to start the plane. 

 

Maybe even just plumbing it in so it will charge when the engine is running but be isolated and not subject to current draw when the master is on... for 9oz its pretty good peace of mind!

 

[High Country 69]

got my new Earth X battery this past week and now I have it all mounted. this thing is tiny!! and less than a pound!! I made an aluminum box and mounted it on the cockpit side of the firewall keeping the weight in the center and as far back as I could by still keeping the wire runs as short as possible. Let me know what you guys think or if I should change anything...goes for the rest of my FWF project so far. I'm trying to keep it all as clean as possible but if there is anything I should do differently I want to know about it now.

 

[akflyer 1427]

Looks like a nice clean install to me.  One question, is that recovery bottle the type that has a "straw" in it and the tube goes into the top?  If so, most of those "straws" are removable and I have had them fall off inside the tank when the hot fluid goes in the tank, then when the engine cools off, it sucks air back into the system causing you untold amounts of grief at very in-opportune times!

 

The other thought is that with no insulation or sound deadening on the inside of the firewall, she may be a bit loud in there.

 

[High Country 69]

My book shows the straw going in through the bottom but there is no hole anywhere so I guess it could possibly go either way   is there a better tank I should be looking for to be more reliable, I sure don't want to be getting any air in the system. I will be adding some sound deadening material at some point in the future just trying to get the papers signed off at this point so I can fly it. was thinking of adding the material to the engine side and possibly some in the foot wells of the inside to keep the heat from the exhaust out. these ones will be removable for added heat in the winter.

[High Country 69]

http://www.crazedpilot.com/2-4lb-aircraft-battery-for-rotax-912-912uls-lithium-iron-phosphate-like-aerovoltz-only-cheaper/

 

http://www.uflyit.com/new_page_57.htm

 

I would go for one of the lithiums if I was going to be building light.  I am going to see how the EarthX battery works out for Randy and will probably be going that route, but I want amperage for cold starts here when its -30. 

Well after all the mess I've been having with earthX i refuse to use their products for any reason and am back to the drawing board. I'm looking at these ones from crazed pilot has anyone had any actual real world experience using one with the 582? I got the engine changed over the weekend and went to a keywest regulator as well now I just need a good battery in the system. Currently don't have electric start but am leaning towards having a battery that will work with one in case I add it later on. 

 

-Robert-

[akflyer 1427]

I take it earth X is not standing behind their product..  Care to elaborate on what they have been telling you?

 

[High Country 69]

I take it earth X is not standing behind their product..  Care to elaborate on what they have been telling you?

 

after 2 months and lots of emails and calls they did refund my money but still say the problem is my plane although i've put 5 hrs on it since with no problems and the plane has not fried my radio gps or misc instruments. They basically say that the electrical systems we use are old and out dated and that nobody uses them any more and we should not use anything but a lead acid battery for the 2 stroke engines. I personally believe their battery will work fine and that I just got a poorly manufactured one. My frustration is more with the company than the product. I just wanted to get a different one and move on but after dealing with the customer service and taking 2 months to get anywhere I'm going with a different company.  here is a bit of info I received from their lead engineer 

 

"Hi Robert, check out the attached sketch.   If the wiring and equipment is right, it may work, but magneto charging systems are not ideal which is why no motorsports/powersports vehicles use them anymore.  The other concern with the magneto charging system is the battery is a major part of the scheme, for without the battery acting as a large capacitor bank, the output would not really be DC. " 

 

We checked and all matches up with the schematics and also checked the output from all 3 places they requested while running at 3000 rpms and all checks out good. 

 

"A lead acid battery is the best option for your design, for a lead acid battery is very different than a lithium battery.   A lead acid battery has a higher resistance to charge / discharge current, so it naturally limits both regardless of what the charging system is doing.   Also, a lead acid battery doesn’t heat up during discharge like a lithium, which will also work better with your charging system."

[akflyer 1427]

well he is only full of shit on a few things... like no motorsport vehicle using the same system... except for every snowmachine, 4 wheelers and side by side that I have seen.  They all run a stator to charge and yes, it does put out  AC, that is why we run the regulator / rectifiers on them.  if the lithium has a built in charge system, then he is full of crapola as well as it should take care of over charging the battery.

 

[High Country 69]

and now you see my frustration grrr. now I need a good alternative.....

[Av8r3400 1178]

Odyssey. http://www.odysseybattery.com/

For the couple of pounds you gain, skip a cheeseburger and doughnut or two...

[High Country 69]

Odyssey. http://www.odysseybattery.com/

For the couple of pounds you gain, skip a cheeseburger and doughnut or two...

As much as I want to cut the weight this is the way I'm leaning at the moment as they have a long proven history and I'm a bit gun shy after the earthx went up in smoke. as for skipping a cheeseburger I'm barely a buck fifty as it is and have nothing to loose and I work for the sheriff's office so leaving out a doughnut just won't work