Earth X Battery Warning!!!

[amienoel 2]

I got a lifepo4 EXT12A about 3 years ago and run a key west to it. with the GPL starter on a 447. I run the radio with it too tapped off the batt. I have the AC input from the stater switched to turn off the charge to the key west. I also run a digital volt meter to see what is going on, no amp meter installed. This is very disturbing to me as I do fly a ton! The battery is inside right next to my seat in the KF lite. The battery has never felt hot to touch as I do check it now and then. it will get to 14.6 and no more on the meter, and if I turn the charge off I will turn it back on at 13.2 and if I am running the strobes I will let the charge switch stay on.

Today jan 1 2017 I did have an issue! The voltage reading was 13.1 when I turned on the main, I cranked and it dropped to 8.6 !! It has been sitting at least 2 months in the cold. no trickle tender on it. Well it cranked over but didn't start the first try and when I let up the volt meter went off. I shut off all the switches and waited 30 seconds turned it back on and the meter came back on. So the internal part of the battery is working, it shut the output off with low voltage, it then showed 13.1 again, cranked it over it was 8.1 during cranking but did start, the meter went back to 13.7 and went on up from there in about a half hour it was over 14 again. no heat on the batt and the key west was warm but not hot!

I have run the rotax regs and don't like them! they get hot and do run over 15 v! The key west without a batt will run 14.6-14.7 so that is not going to over charge the EXT12A batt. plus with the internals it shouldn't cook that lifepo4. I HOPE it doesn't!

My first thought when I saw this was yikes! take that battery out or re mount it in front of the fie wall! and get a regular lead acid type. I do have a welding blanket and think I will sew it into a bag and put this battery in that! So far this has been a good battery without trouble. I do use a battery tender jr on it, it has the light to tell charge, normal or over.I have used these type of tenders for years and they do work. The cheap harbor freight type trickle chargers are bad bad! Constant 50 mil to the batt! I have had one LA battery blow up because of one of them. It boiled it empty over time! The earthx sight does say the jr is ok to use. 

It is on one right now after finding it low today after sitting and not any drain over this time sitting. I will check it in the am to see what the batt V reads.

Needless to say I am very concerned with this batt form day one! 1.3# compared to a normal LA at 3.5 or so # is not a big concern, but the clean ease of this EXT12A was appealing.

My plan is to keep searching for issues reported and keep a close eye on it and make the fire proof bag.

Good info, thanks for posting this!

Edited 2 Jan 2017 by amienoel
spelling

[dholly 718]

Interesting comment about cutting up an old welding blanket and sewing it into a bag to put the battery in. Seems like a good idea to me, but I'll leave it to others as I know nothing about these batteries.

[EDMO 1078]

I like the old heavy lead-acid batteries - helps get my cg back a little in place of adding lead weights - and don't burn the fabric off!  EDMO

[amienoel 2]

I bought the blanket from harbor freight. It is a decent cloth and after seeing what happened to that battery wow! Easy to make the bag. BUT I did look at lead acid today. Bout $23 bucks. will see how it goes.

[EDMO 1078]

I bought the blanket from harbor freight. It is a decent cloth and after seeing what happened to that battery wow! Easy to make the bag. BUT I did look at lead acid today. Bout $23 bucks. will see how it goes.

Amie,  Just my weird way of thinking about Murphy's Law:  "What can go wrong, usually will go wrong" - I wonder if wrapping an insulating blanket around the X battery will keep the heat from dissipating and could cause it to go into melt or burn mode?  Just wondering!   I keep seeing the little AA size battery in the E-cigarettes giving people 3rd degree burns when put in a pocket or purse.   I think I would feel safer to have it in a steel box with some venting, but if you add the weight of a box then you may as well get a lead-acid battery.    EDMO

Edited 4 Jan 2017 by EDMO

[amienoel 2]

I bought the blanket from harbor freight. It is a decent cloth and after seeing what happened to that battery wow! Easy to make the bag. BUT I did look at lead acid today. Bout $23 bucks. will see how it goes.

Amie,  Just my weird way of thinking about Murphy's Law:  "What can go wrong, usually will go wrong" - I wonder if wrapping an insulating blanket around the X battery will keep the heat from dissipating and could cause it to go into melt or burn mode?  Just wondering!   I keep seeing the little AA size battery in the E-cigarettes giving people 3rd degree burns when put in a pocket or purse.   I think I would feel safer to have it in a steel box with some venting, but if you add the weight of a box then you may as well get a lead-acid battery.    EDMO

I have not ever felt any heat on that battery. Doesn't mean ole Murphy is lurking! I just figured if I made a bag for it then I would feel a little better about it. If I move the batt up front on the outside of the fire wall it would be safer, and easy to move it. There is more heat out there in summer time tho. If it gives me ANY sign of trouble I will pull it and just put a regular batt in and mount it out front so it can vent and drip without getting on anything, with a vent tube of coarse ..... Just running by this post made me worry. I have had the Jr trickle charge on for a week and so far no issues. But it is colder than cold out too.

on a side note, I have a set of sub c nicad rc batteries , 2 flight packs stacked parallel with a anderson power poll connector on it, so I can charge the packs separately,  that was rigged to run the strobe light, before I added the GPL starter. Before I got this earthx batt, the one I had was no good, just an old regular battery, so no crank out and about ,  I had the nicad pack with me in the back, I plugged it in and started that plane!! No damage, no heat no problems! I did un plug it tho because they cant be charged off the key west reg. now that would have made a mess! Good thing I had forgotten to take that pack out lol no room for pull start with the start pack on there. It is ducati so there is no hand propping!

[amienoel 2]

I bought the blanket from harbor freight. It is a decent cloth and after seeing what happened to that battery wow! Easy to make the bag. BUT I did look at lead acid today. Bout $23 bucks. will see how it goes.

Amie,  Just my weird way of thinking about Murphy's Law:  "What can go wrong, usually will go wrong" - I wonder if wrapping an insulating blanket around the X battery will keep the heat from dissipating and could cause it to go into melt or burn mode?  Just wondering!   I keep seeing the little AA size battery in the E-cigarettes giving people 3rd degree burns when put in a pocket or purse.   I think I would feel safer to have it in a steel box with some venting, but if you add the weight of a box then you may as well get a lead-acid battery.    EDMO

A friend of mine had one of the little battery chargers for the cell phone in her purse, the terminals on those are inside so no shorting out, where it was there was nothing to short it, but that bugger went BANG! It sounded like a 22 going off in her purse! GOD knows what caused that to happen. But it sure enough went bang! It was a NiMH type battery in that one.

[Av8r3400 1178]

Again, I'll keep my Odyssey P680, 13 pound battery.

 

It won't explode.

It helps my weight and balance.

It doesn't need a special charger.

IT doesn't need a special containment device.

It works well.

[EDMO 1078]

Amie,  I cant give you any intelligent feedback about the X-battery, except that I will continue using the LA batteries until I know for sure that some new type is safe.  From what you write, you seem to know a lot more about them than I do.   I started life in a machine shop, tried to get educated in electronics while in the Army back about the time that transistors were coming into use - been to aircraft electrical school about 25 years ago, but went back to machining about 50 years ago.   EDMO

[amienoel 2]

OK went out and flew yesterday! I am taking the earthx out! it had been on trickle and is not gonna make it. so I bought a regular batt last eve! Will cut an empty oil container and it will be my tray! at least I know it is safe and can leave tricle on it with no issues and it will have enough to crank it over. no major issues this way! It is done. earthx battery will be used for something else. they dont like the cold along with the above pictures and info. Not enough weight issues to worry about!  

I am sure glad I ran across this post! THANK YOU!

[EDMO 1078]

OK went out and flew yesterday! I am taking the earthx out! it had been on trickle and is not gonna make it. so I bought a regular batt last eve! Will cut an empty oil container and it will be my tray! at least I know it is safe and can leave tricle on it with no issues and it will have enough to crank it over. no major issues this way! It is done. earthx battery will be used for something else. they dont like the cold along with the above pictures and info. Not enough weight issues to worry about!  

I am sure glad I ran across this post! THANK YOU!

I found out about the CFL? "twister floresents" bulbs the hard way too - I put one in as a replacement outdoor floodlight and once it turned cold it would barely light up - put 2 in the freezer and they would not light at all - So glad the LED lights are now replacing the CFLs, and they work when cold - Just wish they would get cheaper soon - We live and learn.   EDMO

Edited 10 Jan 2017 by EDMO

[amienoel 2]

this is an update, I put the new ES5LBS battery in today. it hooked fine. and cranked the GPL right over. on crank voltage didnt dip below 12.3v ! then went right back to 13.6! I ran the charge in flight with the key west and it got to 14.3 and just stayed there. no heat no issues. so all is well! It is in a plastic container to catch any possible spillage. It so happens it fits perfectly in a cottage cheese container! I put a dab of baking soda in the bottom as well to neutralize it if it does leak any. I feel better now with this. it was only 17oz more weight and I will never notice it  

More info on the earthx is: they say its standing full charge voltage is supposed to be 14.2 -14.6 well after trickle charge with the correct charger it is 12.9 ! ( resting voltage is supposed to be 13.2 ) and it used to always be 13.6 so I think I will contact them to see if warranty is in order but it will never go back in my plane! I will update on that too! Lets see how well they do stand behind these batteries!

Edited 16 Jan 2017 by amienoel
spelling

[amienoel 2]

OK went out and flew yesterday! I am taking the earthx out! it had been on trickle and is not gonna make it. so I bought a regular batt last eve! Will cut an empty oil container and it will be my tray! at least I know it is safe and can leave tricle on it with no issues and it will have enough to crank it over. no major issues this way! It is done. earthx battery will be used for something else. they dont like the cold along with the above pictures and info. Not enough weight issues to worry about!  

I am sure glad I ran across this post! THANK YOU!

I found out about the CFL? "twister floresents" bulbs the hard way too - I put one in as a replacement outdoor floodlight and once it turned cold it would barely light up - put 2 in the freezer and they would not light at all - So glad the LED lights are now replacing the CFLs, and they work when cold - Just wish they would get cheaper soon - We live and learn.   EDMO

i hate those CFL bulbs! had a few blow up catch fire and they stink like constant burning! Plus if they are so dam good then why does it say on the box to call hazmat if you break one! lol. geezzzz

[EDMO 1078]

OK went out and flew yesterday! I am taking the earthx out! it had been on trickle and is not gonna make it. so I bought a regular batt last eve! Will cut an empty oil container and it will be my tray! at least I know it is safe and can leave tricle on it with no issues and it will have enough to crank it over. no major issues this way! It is done. earthx battery will be used for something else. they dont like the cold along with the above pictures and info. Not enough weight issues to worry about!  

I am sure glad I ran across this post! THANK YOU!

I found out about the CFL? "twister floresents" bulbs the hard way too - I put one in as a replacement outdoor floodlight and once it turned cold it would barely light up - put 2 in the freezer and they would not light at all - So glad the LED lights are now replacing the CFLs, and they work when cold - Just wish they would get cheaper soon - We live and learn.   EDMO

i hate those CFL bulbs! had a few blow up catch fire and they stink like constant burning! Plus if they are so dam good then why does it say on the box to call hazmat if you break one! lol. geezzzz

Wasn't it our super-smart government that outlawed the old incandescent bulbs and told us to buy CFL bulbs made in China? 

They sure blew that one!  Pun intended.     I hope I never get in a wreck with one of those "self-driving electric cars" with the big lithium batteries in it - That should be a hell of a burnout when my gas tank goes!   EDMO

Edited 16 Jan 2017 by EDMO

[SuberAvid 617]

Just to throw this into the ring; I have been running an EarthX ETX36C since April 2014 and have had no issues with it on my Subaru EA81.  I replaced my PC680 with it and it cranks stronger and especially when cranking at below 0F temps.

I thought I had a problem with it this year when I had some issues with my alternator overcharging but it was not the battery as it did the same thing with the PC680.  One thing to watch out for though is the EarthX will trip out with the overcharge protection.  For that reason I plan to install a smaller EarthX as a separate backup battery just to run at a loss voltage to power one ignition and one fuel pump to provide emergency engine electrical power for at least an hour.  My total draw from the ignition, fuel pump and electronics is 3.7 amps so somewhat less with only ignition and fuel pump.  I should be able to get this out of a smaller  3.5 amp hour equivalent EarthX battery.

Bottom line; it is your choice on what you run so do what YOU are comfortable with.

[lostman 198]

Just to throw this into the ring; I have been running an EarthX ETX36C since April 2014 and have had no issues with it on my Subaru EA81.  I replaced my PC680 with it and it cranks stronger and especially when cranking at below 0F temps.

I thought I had a problem with it this year when I had some issues with my alternator overcharging but it was not the battery as it did the same thing with the PC680.  One thing to watch out for though is the EarthX will trip out with the overcharge protection.  For that reason I plan to install a smaller EarthX as a separate backup battery just to run at a loss voltage to power one ignition and one fuel pump to provide emergency engine electrical power for at least an hour.  My total draw from the ignition, fuel pump and electronics is 3.7 amps so somewhat less with only ignition and fuel pump.  I should be able to get this out of a smaller  3.5 amp hour equivalent EarthX battery.

Bottom line; it is your choice on what you run so do what YOU are comfortable with.

Randy, what did you end up figuring out on your charging issue? 

[wypaul 448]

Just to throw this into the ring; I have been running an EarthX ETX36C since April 2014 and have had no issues with it on my Subaru EA81.  I replaced my PC680 with it and it cranks stronger and especially when cranking at below 0F temps.

I thought I had a problem with it this year when I had some issues with my alternator overcharging but it was not the battery as it did the same thing with the PC680.  One thing to watch out for though is the EarthX will trip out with the overcharge protection.  For that reason I plan to install a smaller EarthX as a separate backup battery just to run at a loss voltage to power one ignition and one fuel pump to provide emergency engine electrical power for at least an hour.  My total draw from the ignition, fuel pump and electronics is 3.7 amps so somewhat less with only ignition and fuel pump.  I should be able to get this out of a smaller  3.5 amp hour equivalent EarthX battery.

Bottom line; it is your choice on what you run so do what YOU are comfortable with.

Randy, I wonder if what you need is the "crowbar" over voltage protection instead of the second battery.  That would protect your electronics also and and the warning light lets you know you have a problem.  Circuitry and parts are on AeroElectric website. This has a three position switch that also allows you to take the alternator out of the circuit manually and is much cheaper than the second battery. I use this on both of my planes.  Lots of other great info there also for wiring aircraft with circuit diagrams and a great support group. 

[EDMO 1078]

Just to throw this into the ring; I have been running an EarthX ETX36C since April 2014 and have had no issues with it on my Subaru EA81.  I replaced my PC680 with it and it cranks stronger and especially when cranking at below 0F temps.

I thought I had a problem with it this year when I had some issues with my alternator overcharging but it was not the battery as it did the same thing with the PC680.  One thing to watch out for though is the EarthX will trip out with the overcharge protection.  For that reason I plan to install a smaller EarthX as a separate backup battery just to run at a loss voltage to power one ignition and one fuel pump to provide emergency engine electrical power for at least an hour.  My total draw from the ignition, fuel pump and electronics is 3.7 amps so somewhat less with only ignition and fuel pump.  I should be able to get this out of a smaller  3.5 amp hour equivalent EarthX battery.

Bottom line; it is your choice on what you run so do what YOU are comfortable with.

Randy, I wonder if what you need is the "crowbar" over voltage protection instead of the second battery.  That would protect your electronics also and and the warning light lets you know you have a problem.  Circuitry and parts are on AeroElectric website. This has a three position switch that also allows you to take the alternator out of the circuit manually and is much cheaper than the second battery. I use this on both of my planes.  Lots of other great info there also for wiring aircraft with circuit diagrams and a great support group. 

Paul,  Is that Aeroelectric site the one that Jim Weir puts out?  I tried going to his site and everything was "Zippered" and I didn't know how to :unzipper" the circuits so I could read them.  I think I may still have one of his overvoltage thingys but there was no 3-way switch with it.   EDMO

Edited 22 Jan 2017 by EDMO

[wypaul 448]

No it isn't it is aeroelectric.com

Here is a link to the crowbar.

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9003/DIY_Crowbar_OVP_F.pdf

There was a crowbar already assembled but it looks like it is now  a DIY project only.

Ed can you post a link or address to Jim's site.

 

[EDMO 1078]

Paul,  I tried to get some info years ago on Jim Weirs site - cant remember what it was - that was 2 or 3 computers ago.  He used to own Northern Lights Electronics in Anchorage where I bought electric thingys until I left there in 2001, and after that he was writing for one of the plane magazines.  Maybe that was also the name of his site, or maybe it is just in his name?  EdMO

Edited 22 Jan 2017 by EDMO

[1avidflyer 1983]

Are you thinking about Bob Nuckolls?  Isn't he the electronics guru?  JImChuk

[EDMO 1078]

Are you thinking about Bob Nuckolls?  Isn't he the electronics guru?  JImChuk

No - Jim Weir was the guru at one time.   He made the first "crowbar" setup that I read about.  I got a red LED indicator light from Northern Lights Electronics before most folks ever heard of an LED light.   EDMO

Edited 22 Jan 2017 by EDMO

[wypaul 448]

My lizard brain finally kicked in and I remembered where I bought the Crowbar for OV protection:

http://www.bandc.aero/over-voltageprotectionmodule.aspx

They also have PM (permanent magnet) kit which will work on Rotax and Jabiru.

http://www.bandc.aero/pmovfilterandovprotectionkit14v1-1.aspx

 

Edited 24 Jan 2017 by wypaul

[EDMO 1078]

Paul,  The one question I have about this thingy is - If this "pops" with a runaway alternator to protect your battery / circuits, doe it "reset" when things are back to normal - or is this a One-Time use, and has to be replaced?  EdMO

Edited 24 Jan 2017 by EDMO

[wypaul 448]

There is a breaker in the circuit that trips, taking the alternator off line and illuminates a warning lamp.  To reset, reset the breaker.