SCRATCH BUILDING

[EDMO 1078]

Wisdom learned from years of experience:

Building your own plane without using someone's plans or a kit is like buying an engine and making all the parts to build your own car instead of bolting together all the parts the manufacturer made.

Your cost in time is 1000 times the cost of buying one already built, but you made it "your way"!.

You may learn a lot while designing and building, but the best wisdom should be displayed in the name of your plane:  "NEVER AGAIN"! 

EDMO

Edited 6 Aug 2014 by Ed In Missouri

[akflyer 1427]

Keep plugging away Ed, you will get that bird in the air!

 

[EDMO 1078]

Thanks Leni,

      Just had to make an unforeseen engineering change - cutting tubes, and heading back to weld shop!   Time - and Time Again!

EDMO

[Tree top pilot 13]

Take heart...I have been at a kit that was supposed to be ready to assemble. Got taken and now have 2 airplanes....one for scrap{the original} and one that is going to be safe and airworthy. Helps me sleep a little better. Over the "I hate this" thing and want to see it finished now.

[EDMO 1078]

My 16 years - or 20? - of building included so much time-consuming things that I cant remember all of it - Lived in 5 houses in 2 states, got married, raised two more babies, worked, went to school, traveled about 1/4 million miles in several states and Canada by truck and plane, got divorced, rebuilt another house, moved machine shop from Alaska to Missouri, and got married again, along with having different cancer treatments 3 times, and starting to feel the aches and pains of injuries and getting older. 

I sure cant blame the passage of time on building this plane twice - That's just the way life goes on!  Ha!

EDMO

NOTE:  I have to face the reality of my age and health - I may never get to fly this bird - But the goal of finishing it, with the part-time help of an old flying buddy, is the challenge that keeps me working on it.

EdMO

Edited 14 Nov 2014 by Ed In Missouri

[cliff 45]

Ed,

I have a mk4 project, I have many modifications I would like to do to it. Stretch the fuselage, flaps, Grove or bush gear, 4 stroke, etc. I don't have time right now to work on it and it is just sitting collecting dust. It will cost 20k to 30k  and hundreds, if not thousands of hours to build it the way I want.  I am at the point where I look at it and still have the dream, but at the same time I realize I could sell it and just buy a finished plane for the same amount of money. I love flying the 2 stroke Avid I have but, I really want a 4 stroke lsa for my brother to get his sport license in. I am at a turning point. Do you have any advice for me?  Would you go down the path of scratch building and modifying again?

Thanks, Cliff

[Guest]

My advice (and with $4.50 will buy you a cup of coffee) is:

 

If you love to fly...buy something already built that is what you want that already flies and tinker with what you bought if you like to tinker.

If you love to build....build. But don't expect to fly for a long long long time if ever.

 

Unless of course you have a lot of hangar space and money. Then buy what you want to fly and fly it while build what you want to build when you feel like building. best of both worlds.

 

I say this because I am personally stuck right now. I am a flyer not a builder even though I am a capable builder and do love to tinker. But right now I have nothing that flies. Two projects..My Magnum I wrecked and needs repair and the "flyer" I bought to fly while working on my Magnum which turned out not to be a flyer after all..... and I am miserable because of it.

 

Chris

[EDMO 1078]

My advice:

      Go to Costco and buy a can of Coffee for $10 and brew your own - the rest depends on your age, health, circumstances and how much you enjoy flying.   I was in my mid-50's when I got my first Kitfox, but too busy to do much to it - Now I am 73, retired and have health issues. 

I had this plane finished in Alaska as a stock taildragger in 2001, ready for inspection, but circumstances changed quickly and I had to move to Missouri - In 2007 I sold my house and machine shop in Alaska and the plane fell off of my trailer and got badly banged up, losing one flaperon too. I stripped it, and started modifying it in 2009, and am about 80% done building, then covering and painting.

      I haven't been active, legal or whatever you want to call it, but still get an occasional flight in with a buddy.  I am not sure now that the requirements for certification for the plane or myself are worth the hassle, and maybe will get this bird finished to the point I can sell it before my widow gives it away.

      I can't tell someone else what would suit their needs the most or make their days more enjoyable.  I am a designer, machinist, A&P and like being a builder - but I really miss the freedom of flying by myself in my own plane.

      Life goes by too quickly, so we better make the best of the time we have left.

     Hope this helped.

EDMO

Added: I hope I can see this plane fly, or better yet, get to fly it. Maybe I can make that a part of the sale, to get a ride in it?

EDMO

Edited 27 Nov 2014 by Ed In Missouri

[cliff 45]

I have an A model Avid with a fresh 582 and c box that I fly to unwind and destress when I have the time and I have a Cessna 180 for traveling and other fun adventures. The A model is cheap and fun to fly but, with a few 2 stroke engine out landings over the past 30+ years of flying 2 stroke aircraft, I never feel completely comfortable in the 2 stroke. I am thinking about selling the A model and the MK4 project and buying a 4 stroke LSA. I have a fondness for the Avid/Kitfox type airplanes and would love to build one exactly how I want it but, I don't have the time now or in the forseeable future. It might be time to give up on the building dream and just buy something as close to what I wanted to build out of my MK4 project. I think I will let it stew over the winter and figure it out next year.

[EDMO 1078]

Cliff,

I think you have made the best decision for your needs. Maybe you can find a RANS, or JUST, or Kitfox, or something with a 912 or 4-stroke that will fit your needs. I don't have the knowledge or experience to be comfortable with a 2-stroke either - and there are too many trees in

Central Missouri and too few flat spots for an emergency landing.

Good Flying,

EDMO

[1avidflyer 1983]

I have an A model Avid with a fresh 582 and c box that I fly to unwind and destress when I have the time and I have a Cessna 180 for traveling and other fun adventures. The A model is cheap and fun to fly but, with a few 2 stroke engine out landings over the past 30+ years of flying 2 stroke aircraft, I never feel completely comfortable in the 2 stroke. I am thinking about selling the A model and the MK4 project and buying a 4 stroke LSA. I have a fondness for the Avid/Kitfox type airplanes and would love to build one exactly how I want it but, I don't have the time now or in the forseeable future. It might be time to give up on the building dream and just buy something as close to what I wanted to build out of my MK4 project. I think I will let it stew over the winter and figure it out next year.

If you want a 4 stroke, and like the Avid A model, get an HKS, install it and you should have what you want. A light A model would perform pretty good with an HKS. Maybe not as peppy as the 582, but close. Jim Chuk

[cliff 45]

Ed,

 I always listen to wisdom, especially when it comes from some one who has been there and done that. Thanks for your input.

 

Chris b.  I don't love to build for myself, but love the results when I am finished. I restore Cars, Bikes , and planes for a living. It is my job, and I spend many , many hours each week making my customers happy. This leaves me little time to build for myself and if I am building, than I am not flying. Your advice is well taken. I need to fly more than build right now (mental therapy). I am still not going to make any decision until next year about the mk4 project. It isn't costing me anything sitting there collecting dust.

 

Thanks again, Cliff

[EDMO 1078]

Jim,

Would the A model take a 912? Seems like that or the HKS would be his easiest solution with the least amount of work and time to finish?

EDMO

[1avidflyer 1983]

I think the 912 would be a lot of motor for an A model. They have a low gross weight, the 912 is a good bit heavier than the 582 or HKS as well. Probably have to add weight to the tail to balance the 912. It would be a single seat rocket though.... Jim Chuk

[cliff 45]

Jim, 

 

The A model was a compromise to get us in the air quicker. It started out a a donor airplane but ended up being a quicker way to having something to fly. It was a speed wing , we took the stol wings from the MK4 project and put them on the A model. Now we have a poorly built set of speed wings and an Airdale wing extension kit for the MK4. The entire journey we have taken to get to the first flying Avid was long  because of miss steps. We have more money in it than we will ever get out of it if we sell it. It still has mechanical brakes that do almost nothing and a crappy trim system that needs reengineered. It flys great but I just can't see dumping another 10k into it to put a HKS on it. I have been flying it for a couple of months and don't want to be with out a puddle jumper again while I would do the engine swap. It probably would be a good airframe and powerplant combination, but I just don't want to go there. A MK4 with bush gear, extended fuselage, Jabiru 3300, and Flaps was my vision. Sort of a cheaper way to have something comparable to a highlander. I can't afford a Highlander so I thought I would build something close with the parts I have. For now I am going to let it rest and cross this bridge again next year when I am finished with my move to my new airport. I am in the middle of a hangar renovation and toys and playing are on the back burner until I have my new shop up and running.  

 

  Thanks, Cliff   ps how do you use the spell check on this forum?

[EDMO 1078]

Cliff,

If there is a "spell check" on this site, then this dummy don't know how to use it - As I type, the site sometimes corrects my spelling and any time I write Kitfox it underlines it in red, but when I post the red line goes away. I don't think anyone is going to bitch about something not spelled Kerectly!

EdMO

[cliff 45]

Good one Ed!!!!!!