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#21 akflyer

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 04:24 PM

On the water rudder cable... I had mine between the seats but as you said it gor busy in that area.. you have more room to deal with than I do.  I like the way Skystar did theres.  There is a little lever on the float strut just below the pilots door.  you can flip it up or down and it has a little catch to hold it up.  Works GREAT and is out of the way.  when you swap from floats it is one less cable to have to dis-connect to pull the floats.  Iwill get a pick of it when I get home if you are interested in seeing how they did it.

#22 dholly

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 05:12 PM

Jack-

Aha, I missed that in the pic. I think I prefer a sleeve rather than butt joint on this part. Both are probably just fine strength-wise but this is one part a little overkill is ok by me. Plus, I may be able to simply Hysol a sleeve in place and save a bit of welding.

#23 cajunpilot

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 01:38 AM

Jack,

I was doing the same thing with my pictures but it was either Lenny or Doug posted a link to something called "power tools" that allowed me download an image resizer. Once installed, what I did was to do the attachment thing at the bottom of the post...."Browse" then when I got to my pictures and the specific one I wanted, I would right click on it and a drop down menu would appear. I originally did this to use the preview feature which allowed me to see my picture before doing the final step in posting. Anyway after downloading the image resizer a new item appeared on that menu "resize picture." It gives you several options; I choose the "medium" size which seems to do very nicely in our format. What it does is to create a copy and place it in the same folder without changing your original. Unfortunately, you have to close and reopen to find the new copy.

Hope it helps,

Greg

#24 jackak

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 01:41 PM

Thanks Greg, I'll check that out next time I post some pictures.

Doug,  The sleeve and Hysol is an interesting approach.  I think I'd consider putting a couple stainless steel pop rivets in each end too.  They're really tough and should provide the needed connection should the Hysol develop a problem. I say this because I don't know how the Hysol holds up to shear loads.

Jack

#25 akflyer

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 02:13 PM

If there is a strength issue with a butt weld then your welder has no business holding a tig torch, wire feed gun, Stick, or oxy acetylene torch in his hand ( the short would be between the shoulder and the hold and not between the electrode and the base material) :lol: .  I am sure there are alot more stick forces at work in an A10 than on the control colum of these little planes.  The stick forces are VERY light.  Just to qualify my ever so humble opinion, I have been in the welding industry for my entire working career.  I be a certified welding inspector and am currently the QC/FCO manager over the largest maintenance/construction contract that Connoco Phillips has in the world.  I deal with all types of exotic materials including 4130.  If you were to run an engineering analysis, I am sure you could get away with just four 1/2" tack welds around the tube.  May not set well with your head looking down and seeing a gap in your life line, but it will have more than enough strength.

With all this being said, at the end of the day it is all about YOUR peace of mind when you are in the seat of YOUR plane cruising over nasty mountains in moderate turbulance.

:beerchug:

#26 cajunpilot

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 08:14 PM

Lenny,

I am glad to hear it about the weld part as we may have to go the same route as Jack.

All,
We are not sure of how we are to proceed yet. Has anyone thought of/tried designing/building a modified stick. We were of a thought that three inches of offset could be accomplished by an off set stick. I am not sure if it would work as the sleeve coming out of the control column rises up a good bit.

Thoughts?

#27 cajunpilot

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 08:35 PM

Doug,

Been sneaking around over in the Amphib section to see how the other half lives and noticed some good pictures of your mixer in the background. Would you mind posting some pictures of your mixer/flight control rigging. I learned a lot just by seeing the ones on the Amphib thread.

Anything would be appreciated.

PS we could also start posting them in the new build pictures thread

Toodles from Tigerland

Keep 'Em Flyin

#28 dholly

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 11:31 PM

Hey Greg,

Here ya go. This mixer design is absolute genius IMHO, kudos to Steve Winder or John Larsen or whomever was responsible for the design. I'm very interested in getting everything rigged properly and measuring the differential.

I'm going to post the pics here in the Flight Controls thread for better topic continuity and search function. I'll be watching your Build Pictures thread closely to see just how fast you guys are closing on me. You may be a good source of motivation!

[edit] sorry about the dark pics, must have been working at night  :)

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#29 dholly

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 06:16 PM

As to me I have hit a bout of illness for the past five days. Trying to come out of it but nothing yet (fever temp ..no big deal just inconvenient). So its been VERY frustrating for me having to sit on my hands so to speak.

Not a peep for almost a week? Sounds like that bout of illness kicked yer azz!  :flush:

#30 cajunpilot

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 01:45 AM

Yes and nary too far from the Mark...On my back for almost a month now...DISGUSTING. Besides being out of work in one of the most dangerous times in my industries, really sucks as now I have to get back up to same levels. Still not clear, back to the Docs and all that....yada yada yada.

I know you all are where I wish I could have been...Oshkosh. Enjoy it and bring us back all kinds of good info from the get togethers and forums...pictures please!!

Safe journey home!!

Greg and the Cajun Militia

#31 dholly

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 11:14 PM

Hey Greg- get well soon, sounds like a looong time down. About the flaperon cables... no instructions but they connect at the under-seat mixer bell cranks directly to the flaperon horns, secured by the brackets on the fuse inside the baggage area. The vertical flaperon push/pull tubes from the mixer to the flaperon horn as shown in the Mk-IV manual were totally replaced with the Avid+ design. I secured the cable ID tag around the cable with a small zip tie and put that end under the seat. Gotta pack, wheels up for OSH @ 0600.

Doug

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#32 jackak

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 03:25 PM

Doug & Cajun,
A comment on the control cables for the flaperons.  Along with my "kit" I received two flat plates about the same size as the tabs welded on to the fuselage for attaching the push-pull cables.  I asked Steve Winder what they were for and was informed that they could be used as the piece that the cable fastened to and then bolted to the fuselage bracket to get the final alignment with the flaperon.  When Randy and I were fighting with the wing attach problem he discovered that because of the shape of the Avid + fuselage, the arm on the end of the flaperon was about 1" too short.  The arm, where it attaches to the flaperon needs to be extended to actually be inside of the fuselage, otherwise it end about where the bearing point is on the fuselage and turtle deck.  Doug, if you still have your wings attached, maybe you could check to see how yours line up. 
Did either of you guys get any information on the angles that we should shoot for when adjusting the travel on the flaperons?  I know that the new f7a bellcranks provide a differential, but I've never seen any published numbers to adjust to. 
Jack   

#33 akflyer

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 12:39 AM

I did the F7a mod on mine, but I am not sure our controls or mixers are the same so I may lead you down the wrong path.
I can see if I still have the crappy instructions that I got from someone else on how to set it up as mine did not come with destructions either..

#34 jackak

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 02:24 PM

Leni,
It would be great to see the info you have on rigging the flaperons.  I have some from a "Dr. Kitfox"  or something like that, but am leary about how well they apply to the Avid.  I seem to remember 14 deg up and around 27 deg. down as the limits I arrived at after quite a few hours of making tiny little adjustments. Or was it the opposite?  Boy I wish I'd have saved my notes.
Jack 

#35 akflyer

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 04:03 PM

should be the opposite.  You will have more up than down with the F7A arms.

#36 dholly

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 05:12 PM

Jack -

I removed my wings before I left for OSH, but I'll try to take a few measures and see if anything on mime looks too short. If I understand correctly, the full length rod running through the flaperon needs to be ~1" longer in order to extend into the fuselage but the length of the flaperon horn arm that attaches to the flaperon rod itself is ok. Did I get that right?

#37 dholly

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 07:53 PM

cajun-

Keep in mind, while you may have an Avid Flyer Mk-IV builder manual for reference, you are building an Airdale Flyer Avid+ aircraft. The mixer modification being discussed was for Avid Flyer models, not the Airdale Avid+. Different models, different mixers. Refer to the 'original F7 vs. modified F7a bell crank' pic attached (from the Avid Flyer Yahoo Group photo folder) and compare to our Avid+ mixer bell cranks. You will see ours are already shaped like the modified Avid Flyer bell cranks. You do not need to do anything.

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#38 jackak

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 02:10 PM

Doug,
Right, it looks like extending the flaperon shaft or the part of the flaperon control arm that attaches to it(slides over it) will need to be extended about an inch.  I'm not sure which would be the easiest to extend. Could be we could extend the control arm end that slides over the flaperon shaft around an inch and a half, then shorten it a bit at a time 'til it lines up with the flex shaft. 
Jack

#39 dholly

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 05:01 PM

Jack-

Ok, got it. My flaperon arms are not riveted to the rod yet so there is some back and forth slide / adjustability, maybe enough? I'll try to get out a tape in the next day or two, still dousing fires from being out of office for a few days...

#40 jackak

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 02:13 PM

Doug,
That would be great if you could measure your flaperon arms and see how much we have to extend them.  Does your construction manual cover the flaperon adjustments for the Avid+?
Jack




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