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#41 jackak

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 02:18 PM

Cajun,
I think I'll stay here with the discussion on the Avid +controls. Thanks.
Jack

#42 dholly

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 06:10 PM

Greg-

Re: the F7a mod, you've asked the same question at least a half dozen times in two different threads now. I've answered in both threads already, the most recent only a few posts back in this very thread... with pictures. Despite their general similarities, the Avid and Airdale Flyer models are different aircraft. The Airdale Avid+ flight control system was completely redesigned and IMHO a great improvement over the older Avid Flyer models. This F7a bell crank mixer mod is for the mixer on Avid Flyer models only and not applicable to our Airdale Avid+ model.
Bottom line... YOU DON'T NEED IT!  :hammerhead:

Re: the flaperon cables, I already posted pics of the cable routing and explained that the cables connect directly from the mixer aileron bell cranks to the flaperon control arms. I don't know what more I can say or do. In any event, there are no "control rods". The Avid+ flight control system does away with the solid control rods between mixer and flaperon arm (as used and shown in the Avid Flyer Mk-IV manual) in favor of the flexible cable linkages.

Re: the support material received with your kit... or lack thereof. The reality is, the documentation that came with the Avid+ does not include step-by step building instructions. NO one has a Avid+ specific builder manual, the Airdale Flyer Co. simply provided Avid Flyer Mk-IV manuals. In my case, the Mk-IV manual I have is Revision 8/16/96 and includes Sections I-XIII plus a handful of 4"x6" photos of the Avid+ mixer assembly (no written instructions). I also have the factory pull sheets which is basically a parts list that describe each kit part and where it goes. I was very fortunate that the hardware in the kit I bought was separately packaged and labeled with both AN and location descriptions, a huge help when cross-referenced to the pull sheets.

Bellyaching about the lack of detailed manuals is a waste of time -it is what it is- but we can be of much better assistance to each other if we at least understand who has what. Some time ago I asked you to detail exactly what support material you have, including the revision date of your builder's manual, but you never answered. If you do not have a copy of Airdale's Avid+ pull sheets I would be happy to scan and post them here. If you don't know what a pull sheet is, go to the Avid Flyer Mk-IV forum on this site. I posted the pull sheets from my old Mk-IV project there a short while ago.

Honestly, I hope this all doesn't come off sounding too harsh because I really, truly don't mind helping when and if I can. But I prefer to be building or working on solutions to new issues than repeating information already covered. Gotta keep moving forward or this project will never get done!
  :beerchug:

#43 dholly

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 07:19 PM

Jack-

The depth of my flaperon control horn sleeves is 4-1/2". Interestingly, my flaperon spar rods are not the same length. On one flaperon I have 6-1/2" and 5-3/8" of spar rod protruding, and on the other I have 7-1/2" and 7-1/2" protruding. Go figure.

I held a T-square against the rear carry-thru to extend the center line of the rear spar pin hole aft. As the pic shows, that is about 4-1/2" outside the fuse at the point I believe the control horn support blocks are located. The distance between the C/L of the root rib flaperon hinge position and the C/L of the rear spar pin hole looks to be 3/4". So add those together and my best guesstimate suggests I need a minimum of 5-1/4" from the C/L of the root rib hinge to get the horn arm inside the fuse.

Because the two flaperons are identical and hinge position pre-determined, in my case where the control horns are not yet attached to the flaperon spar rods, I figure I can use either on whatever side I want and simply trim the protruding rod end waste on the outboard sides after mounting. If correct, then I'll have inboard spar rod ends of 6-1/2" on one side and 7-1/2" on the other to work with. If at least 50% of the control horn sleeve should be slipped over the rod end for structural integrity, I think I have as much as 8" from the C/L's of the root hinge to the horn arm hinge to work with. Time will tell, but it doesn't look like I will run into the same issue you and Randy have re-using your wings. Not sure the pics will add much but I'll post them anyways.

Re: flaperon adjustments, all reference I have is to the Mk-IV. Pertinent info in my manual is found in Sec VIII, Chap 2. 'The Flaperons' and Sec VIII, Chap 5. 'Rigging The Wings & Flaperons'. If you don't have these, let me know. Also, while it pertains to the old Avid Flyer mixer mod, our bell cranks are similar to the new F7a's so it might be helpful to keep this in mind: Original [Avid Flyer] mixer bell cranks allowed 26* degs Up and 26* degs Down travel on the flaperons when used as ailerons, each side moving the same. The modified mixer allows approx 26* degs up and 18* degs down travel (approx 2:1 differential), plus some differential with flaps down.

(To avoid any confusion, the modification to the Avid Flyer mixing assembly replaces the (2) flaperon bell crank p/n F-7's with reshaped ones called F-7A and the (2) bits of threaded rod F-37 with short pieces of bent 3/8" tubing with threaded ends and is NOT applicable to the redesigned Airdale Flyer Avid+ mixer.)  

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#44 cajunpilot

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 12:50 AM

Actually that cleared it up...lost in translation I guess. But, we have two control rods that I incorrectly interpretted as being a part of the Mod. Hence the confusion. Somehow I missed in your previous messages that the cables attached directly to the flaperons with not control rod in between.

As to the manuals and getting you that information, I fell sick with a virus that knocked me out of work and any and all activity for a month. Not to bore you with my histrionics, but in the process and in the disconnect, I did forget about your request, which incidentally occured the day before I was laid low.

As always thanks for the Help

#45 dholly

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 02:44 PM

Greg-

A month long virus, eh? I thought you guys were supposed to be tough?! Maybe you all better stop using swamp water for the crawfish boils, lol.

So what are these 'control rods' you are talking about? I just posted the Avid+ pullsheets in case you don't have them, should make identifying and pinpointing the end location of all the parts a whole lot easier.

-Mr. Sensitivity  :)

#46 jackak

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 03:06 PM

Doug,
Thanks for the measurements.  I have 4 1/8" from the center line of the root hinge to the inside of the control horn arm.  So, looks like I'll need to extend the control horn at least a inch plus the amount inside the fuselage to the control cable.
Been teaching myself to spray paint.  I'm using what Wagner calls a conversion gun, it allows you to use a smaller compressor to get hvlp output.  It seems to be working ok with the primer.  I'll have to see what happens when I start spraying the color coats.  I can see why shops charge so much for doing a paint job.  Slow and tedious!  Especially when you don't have a paint booth. The inside of my garage looks like a polyethylene palace.
Thanks again for the measurements,
Jack 

#47 dholly

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 03:51 PM

Jack-

-sigh- I wish I covered and painting already!

Friend Russ up the road here covered his Mk-IV with Stewarts this year and just finished spraying the UV coats in his garage 'paint booth' too. He said yesterday he's ready to tackle the color and it sure sounded like everything was working well for him. He's been real happy with the Stewarts system. I tried to find their booth last week for current pricing but vendors, etc were all changed around this year. Progress I guess...

#48 Av8r3400

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 05:03 PM

I looked for them too, Doug and never found them.  There's a bunch of YouTube Videos here.

I've got the poly-products on my plane now and will repair that for short term, but would seriously consider the Stewart's if I can find out more about it when recover time comes.

#49 dholly

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 03:10 PM

Larry-  I have a CD that came with the promo pkg from Stewarts a couple years ago, but I think the YouTube videos collectively actually do a better job showing the process. I hadn't found those and just watched 'em all, thanks.

#50 jackak

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 01:50 PM

Doug,
Does Russ know about using a postal scale to measure his components when mixing the color coats?  When I talked to the Stewart System folks at Arlington, they recommended weighing each part rather than using a paint cup to determine the correct mix.  Many times faster and more accurate too.  I got mine at Staples for around $38.00.  They, Stewart Systems, have a dvd on using the scale and will give it to you for free.  Nice thing about that scale is that it has a tare wt. function that lets you weigh only the contents of the paint container, and not the container itself and it will weigh up to 5 lbs.
Jack

#51 Marshawk

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 05:17 AM

Hi guys ,would any of you's have a extra 3 1/2" length of the 1.375 x.049 tube for adding on to my control column, seem to have that too short thing happening here too. :dunno: I didn't have a caliper for measuring but I imagine it would be the same diameter as eveyone else .It came out of a heavy hauler C model. If someone has a piece they want to get rid of ,I would be happy to pay for it plus the shipping and handling.

Thanks Willis
Willis
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#52 jackak

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 02:43 PM

Hi guys ,would any of you's have a extra 3 1/2" length of the 1.375 x.049 tube for adding on to my control column, seem to have that too short thing happening here too. :dunno: I didn't have a caliper for measuring but I imagine it would be the same diameter as eveyone else .It came out of a heavy hauler C model. If someone has a piece they want to get rid of ,I would be happy to pay for it plus the shipping and handling.

Thanks Willis



Willis,
I checked my scrap bin and couldn't find any tubing. It seems like I got mine from a local metal fabrication shop when I had the work done. Don't forget the small tube on the inside of the column. I had both done at the same time to ensure they were both lengthened the same amount.

Jack

#53 Marshawk

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 03:31 AM

Thanks for checking Jack,Unfortunately I live in a small town,I checked around with no luck,I'll phone aircraft spruce and see if they handle it.On a side note ,would you happen to have a picture of your bungee cord set up. I'm wondering if the previous owner allowed enough room for all the bungee wraps needed to pass threw the fabric but I don't want to widen the hole if it's not needed. :fishing:


Thanks again for any help
Willis
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Avid + Project

#54 jackak

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 03:11 PM

Thanks for checking Jack,Unfortunately I live in a small town,I checked around with no luck,I'll phone aircraft spruce and see if they handle it.On a side note ,would you happen to have a picture of your bungee cord set up. I'm wondering if the previous owner allowed enough room for all the bungee wraps needed to pass threw the fabric but I don't want to widen the hole if it's not needed. :fishing:


Thanks again for any help



Willis,
I haven't cut the final holes through the fabric or belly pan yet. Just open it up enough to allow the ends with the clamp through so you can do the install & if needed you can open it up a bit more with a razor blade. You want it to be a pretty tight fit, so you keep out as much exhaust as possible, but not so tight that the cords might be chafed. Also try to figure out a way to seal the opening with some kind of flexible material after the install is done to keep the hole sealed as good as you can. Randy uses some kind of material that looks like that stuff people use on the back of their trucks to keep rocks from hitting their trailer, the hairy looking stuff, it seems to work pretty good. If anyone has a successful way of sealing the bungie cut-out I'd sure be interested in hearing about it. I was thinking about just using some soft rubber to cover the front side of the bungie that would be fastened to the aluminum belly-pan. Maybe glue in something behind the gear to seal the back side. I hope my thoughts help.
Jack

#55 dholly

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 07:16 PM

Willis- sorry, nothing here either as I haven't got around to it yet. :P One note though, if you are going to 'sleeve' it, I think you might need a larger i.d. (see post #18 in this thread). Wicks was the only source for the larger i.d. tubing back then, ACS did not have it.
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Avid Flyer Mk-IV TD (sold)




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