Oratex covering

[EDMO 1078]

I don't know what Stewart told you about a complete covering price, but I know what I can buy fabric and paint for.

Don't you have a total price in US$ you spent for the Oratex to cover your plane?

I might consider using it if I could get a better idea of the total price of covering one of our birds.

One of our members said he spent $2000 on fabric and using Stewarts paints.

EDMO

Edited 19 Nov 2015 by EDMO

[EDMO 1078]

How waterproof is this Oratex stuff compared to the painted fabrics?  If you put some Oratex over a bucket and put a puddle of water on it, would the water soak thru into the bucket overnight?  What happens inside when you wash your plane?

I never did see a $$$ amount for covering an Avid or Kitfox....

EDMO

Edited 19 Nov 2015 by EDMO

[1avidflyer 1983]

I was just looking on Fred's blog, and if I'm reading it right, he used about 10.5 yds. per wing.  That's 21 yds. for both.  Double that should do the fuselage and tailfeathers.  Using the euro price verses dollars, that would be about $1550 for fabric.  Might be able to recover for a bit over $2000 at that rate, glue and reinforcing tapes included.  For now I'll stick to the polyfiber.  I have it already, and it's easy to work with.  I did start covering my Avid fuselage today finally, got the bottom done.  Just punched some numbers into my calculator, and if you use 5 gallons of brush, spray, and polytone, plus uncertified fabric, it will cost around $2000 to cover an Avid with polyfiber products.  I've used closer to 3 gallons of each when I covered my planes, but went as light as I dared.  Jim Chuk 

[EDMO 1078]

Somebody earlier in this thread estimated $6100 for Oratex covering - I think your $2000 is about 3 times too low Jim. 

EDMO

Edited 19 Nov 2015 by EDMO

[EDMO 1078]

How much is 39 E per meter plus shipping worth in US$ now?

Remember too, that this is only 36" or 900mm wide, where our fabric is about 70" to 72" wide.  The Oratex in the same width as ours is like 69E plus shipping.   I would like to use Oratex, but don't think I can afford to.

I like the fact that the glue works just like Stewarts and 3M glue.

EDMO

 

Edited 19 Nov 2015 by EDMO

[1avidflyer 1983]

Ed,  I got my figures from Fred's blog.  He said he glued one 1 meter wide strip to a 2 meter wide strip.  An Avid wing is about 13 feet long.  Oops, I just found an error in my previous post.  It would be about 12 sq. meters per wing, not 10.5 like I said.  Two wings is 24 sq. meters.  Fred said price was about 36 and change in euros per sq. meter.  Dollar and euro are about equal now, in fact the dollar is worth a bit more.  $37 X 24 = $888.  That does the wings for oratex not counting glue and other stuff.  Double the wings for the fuselage and tailfeathers, and you're at $1776.  Is my math wrong again?  Jim Chuk

[EDMO 1078]

Ed,  I got my figures from Fred's blog.  He said he glued one 1 meter wide strip to a 2 meter wide strip.  An Avid wing is about 13 feet long.  Oops, I just found an error in my previous post.  It would be about 12 sq. meters per wing, not 10.5 like I said.  Two wings is 24 sq. meters.  Fred said price was about 36 and change in euros per sq. meter.  Dollar and euro are about equal now, in fact the dollar is worth a bit more.  $37 X 24 = $888.  That does the wings for oratex not counting glue and other stuff.  Double the wings for the fuselage and tailfeathers, and you're at $1776.  Is my math wrong again?  Jim Chuk

Jim,  I cant argue with your math - I didn't know what the exchange rate is now - Maybe the guy who said $6100 was wrong, or maybe the rate has changed since he posted that price some time ago - I would like to know how deep the water is before I jump in.   Go back to page 1 and read the earlier posts.

Thanks,  EDMO

Edited 19 Nov 2015 by EDMO

[Av8r3400 1177]

I just did my Kitfox in Poly Fiber.  About $4500 in fabric, glue, brush, spray and paint.  I wasn't stingy with the coatings, but wasn't super heavy either.

I have also been told, by the Oratex rep, to do a plane like mine in their products would be in the $6000 range.

 

Plus:  Low weight and simplicity of skipping all the coatings

Minus:  Cost

 

 

[EDMO 1078]

I wonder if that Oratrim paint he used on the fiberglass is any safer than Stewarts or the Urethanes?

If Fred is going to advertise about using this method, I think he should post his total cost for the job.

EDMO

Edited 19 Nov 2015 by EDMO

[FredStork 453]

Right... I'm not advertising for this or any other method.. and I have no other relation with Oratex than a good customer - supplier relation. I got free delivery from Germany to France but no other benefits or agreements. Just to be clear...
My only intention here is to share my experience using a rather new product that a lot of people are interested in but know little about.

"When you love you don't count"... but OK, I looked up the invoices and this is what I bought:

For everything except the wings:
24 meters of 900 mm white Oratex UL600. Cost 775 euros + 19% VAT

For the wings:
9 meters of 900 mm white Oratex UL600. Cost 290 euros + 19% VAT
9 meters of 1800 mm white Oratex UL. Cost 529 euros + 19% VAT

Total cost 1594 euros + 19% VAT (i.e. 1896 euros)

i.e.  2019 $US including VAT according to OANDA as of today 13:00 UTC

A liter of hotmelt glue is 75 euros and you need 2...

And remember, this should be compared to any fully painted alternative method....

In the end I had plenty of fabric left but it was Oratex who had been very generous when cutting the fabric. I can easily re-cover another tail plane is needed... I think I got an end of the roll...

I hope this helps

Fred

Edited 19 Nov 2015 by FredStork

[TJay 1041]

Is Poly fiber fabric un certified, I always thought it was certified.

[EDMO 1078]

Is Poly fiber fabric un certified, I always thought it was certified.

TJay,  The 2.7 is stamped "certified" for factory built planes - The 1.7 / 1.8 is uncertified, but can be used on our birds - Ceconite is same way.  There is some 2.7 listed as "uncertified" and it is OK to use too - Just don't have the stamp on it.

Fred,  Thanks for going to all the trouble to list your costs - That seems a lot more reasonable than the $6100 which was told to Larry before he covered his plane - Check out the posts on page 1 before your posts on Oratex.  Is their paint like the Urethane that requires fresh air breathing equipment?

Note:  When I went to the site you listed, the 900mm was 39 E, and the 1800 was 69 E including VAT, but no shipping.

EdMO

Edited 19 Nov 2015 by EDMO

[EDMO 1078]

TJay,   The new 2.7 shrinks a lot more than the old stuff did - We bent the root rib on the J3 when we got it too hot.

This reminds me - If you have wing tanks, you need to put some wood blocks (I glued 3/4" round dowels in 4 places on rib) between the root rib and the gas tank to support the rib from being bowed/bent from the fabric shrinking.

EDMO

Edited 19 Nov 2015 by EDMO

[EDMO 1078]

TJay,   I think Kitfox says you need 35 yards of the 70" fabric to cover your bird.  It should be listed in your build book.  EDMO

[1avidflyer 1983]

When I looked up the conversion rate on euros to dollars yesterday, they said 1 euro = 1.07 dollars.  I didn't figure the VAT, didn't think of that.  As far as the uncertified fabric goes, Aircraft Spruce sells it in all three grades/weights.  They call it peal ply if I remember right.  It's less than half the price of certified fabric.  You can also buy the uncertified finish tapes from them.  Here is a link to their 2.7 oz fabric.  http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/peelply2.php  Jim Chuk

[EDMO 1078]

When I looked up the conversion rate on euros to dollars yesterday, they said 1 euro = 1.07 dollars.  I didn't figure the VAT, didn't think of that.  As far as the uncertified fabric goes, Aircraft Spruce sells it in all three grades/weights.  They call it peal ply if I remember right.  It's less than half the price of certified fabric.  You can also buy the uncertified finish tapes from them.  Here is a link to their 2.7 oz fabric.  http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/peelply2.php  Jim Chuk

Wicks sells uncertified fabric too - at reduced prices.  I think I have seen some at $5/yd, usually $7.

 EDMO

Edited 19 Nov 2015 by EDMO

[EDMO 1078]

I am seriously thinking about using the Oratex after reading Fred's posts.  At least I can still validate my big compressor because I still have parts to be blasted...

EDMO

[KFfan 151]

There is a guy over on the "other site" using Oratex. I think he is building a 7. IIRC he calculated the cost to be nearly equal to other fabrics and associated material.

Lou

[RobS 52]

And I believe on that project he used the heavier material (Oratex 6000).

[FredStork 453]

Yes, unless you have buckets of paint just sitting on a shelf my conclusion was that the difference in price should not be the decision driver... On my blog, scroll down to the October 28th post, you can see what I liked and what I think should be taken into consideration... 

Edited 19 Nov 2015 by FredStork

[1avidflyer 1983]

I should be out working on the Avid, and instead I'm wasting time on the PC.  I threw some more numbers into my calculator, and looked at Aircraft Spruce catalog for poly fiber stuff.  Their prices have gone up some, here is what I used and am not all that far off from the $2000 figure I quoted earlier. 

35 yds. uncertified Dacron $4.90 per yd = $171.50   2 quarts poly tak = $55.00   3 rolls 2" wide uncertified finish tapes - $78.00

5 gallons poly brush = $425  5 gallons ploy spray = $425,   5 gallons  white poly tone = $487.50  1 gallon colored poly tone = $117,   5 gallons poly fiber thinner = 230.70  1 gallon MEK bought locally $25.  That comes to $2014.70.  I know you would still have shipping on top of that, also I didn't figure any 3" or 4" tapes for the leading and trailing edges of wings, I'd cut my own from the wing fabric scrap.  Also, I didn't figure any ribstiching.  1 roll of reinforceing tape should just do it, another $60, plus cord = $45.  I know polyfibre  will have you buying other things for cleaning and such, but I never used them and things turned out fine on my planes. YMMV.   Jim Chuk

Edited 19 Nov 2015 by 1avidflyer

[FredStork 453]

Really no need for ribstitching 1 inch rib caps  using  Oratex if you clean the wood from the old varnish and glue...

[EDMO 1078]

Really no need for ribstitching 1 inch rib caps  using  Oratex if you clean the wood from the old varnish and glue...

I have never heard of the fabric coming loose from the Kitfox/Avid ribs without ribstitching - I think that ribstitching is a leftover process from the old planes with thin metal ribs and old fashioned glues.

EDMO

Edited 19 Nov 2015 by EDMO

[KFfan 151]

Yeah, they don't rend horses any longer...

[EDMO 1078]

Fred,  I noticed that your heat gun has what looks like a digital thermometer on the back of it, and your iron looks different than any I have seen.  I have both with manual settings, and an infrared thermometer to check the heat with.

Are these available in the U.S., or just in Europe?   What do they cost, and who sells them?  I know that your electricity is different there, or at least it was when I was in Germany about 55 years ago.

Thanks,  EDMO

Edited 19 Nov 2015 by EDMO