Flapperons=no roll control

[IFMT 36]

I have went from being a happy avid flyer to a not so happy avid rebuilder. Here is the warning. It is not one thing that got me into trouble. It's a combination. Perfect flying conditions. Needing more experience. Listening to BS about what this plane should be able to do. Getting over confident with slow speed flight with flapperons applied. 

 I was up for an hour and a half having a ball. Cruising all over the valley checking out the countryside. That morning I had tightened my bungees one wrap as they were sagging slightly. When I hooked the bungee on the seat truss I started on the front post ending on the rear. This allowed (even though I have the limit bolt in place at 18ish degrees-TOO MUCH) me to actually pull the flap lever up till the stop. Something I had not used for landing. I went up to 3000 agl and experiment with some slow flight. This plane is heavy with the soob. Good performance in terms of climb and speed and economy. Not good for slow flight. I found 40 to 45 indicated as being stable with flaps applied. Now the trouble starts. I decided to make a couple of precautionary approaches to a really short strip with trees and equipment on each side. Good glide slope though. Being that it was dead calm I decided I could use the full flapperon approach mushing down at 45. Went through twice and everything felt good powering up 15 feet above the ground. On the third time through I decided things looked good so I would land. Problem is I got slowed up just that little bit more. 40-45. Nose up to control speed. Full flaps. Mushing down. Then things go bad. Slight up pitch on the nose and plane moves to the left. I know you are all thinking stall. I put the nose down and applied power along with right aileron. NO RESPONSE. By now I am below the tree level and the only way out is straight ahead. Left wing didn't fall out of the sky but dropped so now I am banked left. You have 3 seconds to figure this out. Next I am heading straight for some 50 foot pine trees. Thats when the left wing clipped the vent stack of a large storage tank in a line of machinery parked over to the side. Spun me around and down. Nose kind of hit taking the prop blades off and coming to a rest backwards with tail resting above some parked junk. Considering I got out without a single scratch I'm extra lucky. So here is what I already knew: Keep the speed up. 1.2-1.3 above the stall (for your airplane). Not some number somebody thinks an avid should fly at. Flapperons applied for take off do help but are being released as you build speed immediately(smoothly) on take off. Trying to lift a semi stalled wing with aileron and full flapperon is impossible. You are actually aggravating the situation with more aileron. Don't put yourself in a questionable situation. Everything to tight in terms of experience, performance, landing area, etc. Having a great day flying sets up some false confidence as well. The plane is pretty bent and I still have to asses the total situation. Definitely a fuselage and lots of wing work. The message is to not get cocky with those flapperons. 

Edited 25 Jan 2015 by IFMT

[akflyer 1427]

OUCH!  That hurts bad.. Rudder is the only thing that would have saved ya there.  Your right about the indicated airspeed.... each and every one of ours is different.  This is not a certified system, and I would bet some money that no one has paid anyone to calibrate the AS and pitot system.  That is what phase 1 testing is for... to learn you plane, to get your indicators marked with speeds you have proven out for your aircraft. 

 

I use what is full flaps on my Avid every landing.  But mine are limited (I do not know the exact degree) so that at a full stall and full flap I dont have control reversal yet I do have somewhat diminished roll control.  I keep my feet very active and they do 90% of the work with roll input being about 10% on short final.

 

Sorry you wadded up the bird, that sucks bad.  Glad your not hurt!

[C5Engineer 1170]

Thanks for being humble enough to share your experience with the group. I've been sick all weekend and didn't get a chance to work on the bird. I will get you those pics after I get it cleaned up.

[dynomike 91]

Man that sucks. Well now you can do some upgrades if you've wanted any.the brighter side.sorry for your loss though

[Luked 71]

Really sorry to hear this. Hope you can get the plane back in flying shape with a reasonable amount of effort.

[SuberAvid 617]

Man that is a bummer.  It sounds like you had a lot of hard things around you so it is great that you didn't get hurt.  I agree, you have to get used to your own plane; mine stalls at 40 to 45 solo as well.  It is certainly not the same plane as Bandit's or Joey's.  I always use full flaps, 26 degrees, for landing and take off unless there is a lot of wind and it still has good roll control above the stall.  Mine doesn't tend to drop a wing but the primary way to control it in a stall is with rudder, and you don't notice that you are dropping at about 500 FPM unless you are close to the ground.  Sure hope you can find another project plane quickly to get it back in the air.

[wolves200 31]

WOW!! glad you are ok...! --- easy for us to say sitting from our computers, but slow speed banks should be corrected only with rudder, aileron will aggravate the stalled wing.

[Bandit 286]

Sorry to hear that, Glad you are ok. I also use full flaps on landing. If I am flying my Bandit at full gross I keep my final approach speed no lower than 55- 60. If I come in any slower than that my sink rate is super fast and If I misjudge my flare I am repairing the fuselage and installing new gear. I always give it some power right at flare out. I can fly my Bandit at 45 IAS, its done flying at anything lower than that. A light Avid glides like a rock, A heavy Avid glides like a Big rock.