Avid Heavy Hauler 1200 lb GW?

[nlappos 413]

I am looking at an amateur built Avid Bandit built in '95 that had "every update to make it a heavy hauler" added during build, like 7/8" struts and HH spars. Would that allow it to have a 1200 lb MGW, which is what it is stated as having?  Thanks!

Edited 20 Feb 2015 by nlappos

[nlappos 413]

My apologies, I found a great thread that answered this in detail, and the owner responded in detail, so disregard. I'd delete the question if I could figure out how!

Edited 20 Feb 2015 by nlappos

[1avidflyer 1983]

Not so fast!  )  I would be interested in the answer you found.  Can you tell us what the thread was that you found?  Thanks,  Jim Chuk

[akflyer 1427]

I too would like the detailed response to this one.  It's been cussed and discussed here.  Seems the HH weights were all over the place.  At the end of the day, its what ever you want to put in the plane.  There is not a "gross weight" listed on any of my FAA paperwork nor any others that I have seen.  Just what you decide to put on the W&B sheet.

 

[Guest]

My 1992 MKIV HH's gross weight rating was 1150. I don't know of any published specs that exceeded 1150 for any of the "original" Avid kits.

 

I don't consider Fat Avids or any of the newer modified versions that sold in tiny ammounts as the company was rapidly changing hands "original" Avids.

[akflyer 1427]

The paperwork I got with mine said 1085 on the brouchure and the original bill of sale from the dealer.. I have seen numbers all over the place on these birds.

 

[EDMO 1078]

From what I understand, the Bandit had the .083 spars, and 503 engine. It was designed to have a light empty weight. If you load it with the same amount as most of our birds, the GW may be about 200 to 300 lbs less than our heavier birds.

As a point in comparison, the Kitfox 4 with the 503 engine, .065 spars, and 1" struts, was listed as 1050 GW, but with the 582 engine it was 1150 or 1200 - so the difference in GW was only in the engine.

The 7/8" spars were tested and spar bolt/rod end failed at about 15,000 lbs - so no problem there - see my post in "Files and Forms".

The Avid Magnum, 1700 GW uses the same 1/4" spar strut bolt.

I have heard "rumors" that Dean flew the original .065 Avid wings at 1500 GW, but imagine that it was smooth air, and a good pilot - I repeat, this has been "rumored".

I think that the original Kitfox .065 spars with the full-length extruded "I" beam in them are probably stronger than any of the ones with short inserts, but I have never seen any engineering numbers to compare them.

I guess your GW is only as big as your Cahunas!

EDMO

Edited 20 Feb 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[Av8r3400 1179]

The current Kitfoxes (5 through 7SS) can be built to 1550 gross with .063 wall spars, using a 60" long extruded insert.

 

Spar wall thickness has zero to do with gross weight.  Landing gear, fuselage fittings,struts, etc. I believe are the difference.

Edited 21 Feb 2015 by Av8r3400

[EDMO 1078]

The current Kitfoxes (5 through 7SS) can be built to 1550 gross with .063 wall spars, using a 60" long extruded insert.

 

Spar wall thickness has zero to do with gross weight.  Landing gear, fuselage fittings,struts, etc. I believe are the difference.

I agree with that, but I don't know how the Bandit compares with the Avid HH 1200 on that.

You can also add, the engine and the Cahunas!

EDMO

[Bandit 286]

The factory told me my Bandit's GW would be 950lbs with the stol wings.

[EDMO 1078]

The factory told me my Bandit's GW would be 950lbs with the stol wings.

So, what is your empty weight / usefull load?

EDMO

[Bandit 286]

EW 480lbs.

[IFMT 36]

My serial number ends in E. I guess this makes it a Bandit. It has 083 spars. HH spacing and double false ribs as well as 7/8 struts. Does not have the plastic smooth wing cover on the front spar or the chrome sticks. Plane was on floats when I bought it. GW is set at 1200. EW 726. Since my bad landing(crash) I got a super deal on a complete fuselage (basically a complete aircraft) minus the wings and engine . Going to take a little time but she will fly again!

Edited 22 Feb 2015 by IFMT

[IFMT 36]

Bandit, I am curious about your performance. Cruise, climb, STOL? Thanks.

[EDMO 1078]

EW 480lbs.

So, with EW 480, that gives you 470 lbs of load for 950 GW - a perfect load/weight ratio for that engine.

If mine comes in at 850 EW, then with the same 470 lb load, I am at 1320 GW, with a larger engine, stronger fuselage and landing gear, and more fuel burn.

I think what I am trying to say, is that with a light plane, you don't need more GW to haul the same load.

EDMO

Edited 22 Feb 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[Bandit 286]

My Bandit with the 503 is a great single place airplane just like a heavier higher horsepower airplane is also a good single place airplane. No wind and taking off of a hard surface runnway I can be airborne in 170 ft. Cruise at 6000 rpm is 69 mph. Check out my video "takeoff circle and land in 50 seconds"

[EDMO 1078]

With the weather and bumps down here, it takes about a 1200 lb or more GW to keep me comfortable bouncing around.

EDMO

[SuberAvid 617]

My serial number ends in E. I guess this makes it a Bandit. It has 083 spars. HH spacing and double false ribs as well as 7/8 struts. Does not have the plastic smooth wing cover on the front spar or the chrome sticks. Plane was on floats when I bought it. GW is set at 1200. EW 726. Since my bad landing(crash) I got a super deal on a complete fuselage (basically a complete aircraft) minus the wings and engine . Going to take a little time but she will fly again!

Alright!  That is great news!