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AIRLINE CRASHES

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Posted (edited)

Cameras in the cockpit wont do any good!

If the geniuses who design planes would put a toilet, or a space for a port-a-potty in the cockpit, there would be no need for a pilot to leave the cockpit.

The FAA / TSA should make that a requirement.

They could use the money and space they saved when they eliminated the Flight Engineer from the cockpit.

Dollars are worth more than passengers until a crash!

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

On every commercial flight I've been on in the US, if one of the pilots in the cockpit needs to leave, one of the flight attendants enters the cockpit until he/she returns.  Either the policies are different in Europe, or the weren't followed on this flight.

Mark

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Posted

Policy is different....but probably soon to change!

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Posted

On every commercial flight I've been on in the US, if one of the pilots in the cockpit needs to leave, one of the flight attendants enters the cockpit until he/she returns.  Either the policies are different in Europe, or the weren't followed on this flight.

Mark

Little good that will do unless she is a weightlifter with an ATP rating! At least most Flight Engineers have knowledge on flying the plane.

EDMO

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Posted

The flight attendant's best action would be open the cockpit door.

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Posted (edited)

The flight attendant's best action would be open the cockpit door.

Yeh, Right after she knocks the Co-Pilot out!

Otherwise, she has a front row seat for the crash!

This is a PR gimmick - A Flight Engineer is the best insurance, Second best is a Pilot Potty.

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

On every commercial flight I've been on in the US, if one of the pilots in the cockpit needs to leave, one of the flight attendants enters the cockpit until he/she returns.  Either the policies are different in Europe, or the weren't followed on this flight.

Mark

Not only that, if you have flown on a domestic carrier 1st class recently you will also see the flight attendant pull the food/drink cart into the aisle to block access to the cockpit whenever the cockpit door is to be opened.

The Canadian, Brit, EU and Gulf carrier cockpit policies -were- different. Lufthansa has now adopted the 'two man' rule, as has Air Berlin, Emirates, Virgin and Air Canada. You can bet there will be more, particularly regional with a two man flight deck.

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Posted

Dollars are worth more than passengers until a crash!

EDMO

 

Dollars are worth more than passengers, no matter what. Never has been different, never will be different.

Thats a worldwide problem, not limited to Germany or Europe and the crapper in the cockpit won't help.

 

Whats scary is the level of involvement of so-called "experts" which have been feeding the press with a ton of BS.

A well known retired LH Psychologist I have known for decades just joined the discussion. Nice little bonus to a already high pension. Roundtables from 6AM to midnight "discuss" the issue to death, more and more hair raising details are released against good money, as with Lubitz's ex girlfriend. Her new Mercedes is already paid for. Depending on the amount on the table, she will release much much more...

 

One of Germany's most idiotic tabloid papers (Bild Zeitung) noticed that the printing machines went on strike, even machines have more style than some reporters and would prefer not to print what they write. The problem I notice is that lots of aviation media outlets (even in the U.S.) soaked this stuff up and they are spreading it around like horsemanure now. Now the pilots are wondering about his flight experience, the interruptions in training and all of his possible fetishes. Imagine being the parents of this kid and seeing your child declared a mass murderer by his peers. Even if he was, it was the damn job of the employer and authorities to weed him out and the system failed again.

 

Imagine a French built airplane crashes on French soil, killing 150 people. Stocks plunged within a few hours. People and even crews basically grounded hundreds of Airbus aircraft as pax would not board and pilots and FA's would not fly. Instantly, we knew that the airplane had been down for unscheduled technical issues the whole day before the crash, however that little tidbit of information "disappeared" from the news as quickly as it appreared. The technical blackbox went missing, just when the CVR tape popped out of the wreckage like a mushroom. Tons of issues lost in translation, the cockpit athmosphere was described as "frosty" when in fact it was supposed to mean it was jovial and normal, both pilots on par with sterile cockpit and level of professionalism.

 

Depression and suicidal thoughts are not as rare as we wish to believe, mental health issues kill tons of people every year. We blame and regulate to death, the tools and weapons those people use to do their deed, but we ignore the base of the problem and try to fix it with regulations that are foolish and full of loopholes. Part of it is putting a 60KG girl in the cockpit when either of the two button pushers needs to go pee. Cameras will be mandatory to observe the smallest movements. I would not be surprised if the industry developed technology that allows the aircraft to be controlled remotely in case both of the pilots become mentally ill or otherwise incapacitated.

 

How many depression & mental issues, drug & alcohol abuse disorders are concealed and remain "officially undiagnosed", just because doctors know that pilots will instantly loose their medicals and basically become unemployed? Now everyone screams for a law to report the prescription of psychoactive drugs as well as all medical visits to the authorities and in the end, a suicidal or depressed pilot will simply not go to the doctors office. You are perfectly fine flying any airplane with a loaded gun sticking out of your mouth, just as long as you don't get diagnosed and treated for depression. We might not wish to hear it, but we know that medical exams are tiny momentary snapshots which reveal nothing and contribute absolutely nothing to the safety of aviation. How else could I explain flying with a Class I medical holder a day before his pretty terrible death from cardiac arrest? He had medical exams every half year! He was supposedly healthy like a horse, flying big iron around the globe.

 

The discussions amongst AME's in Germany is no different now than it has been in the U.S. and neither Lufthansa nor Germanwings are comprised of a bunch of blind dumbos. The German authorities are just as helpless as the U.S. authorities and the mob screams to have a monster and some solutions quickly, so they can blame someone and go back to flying cheap and feeling safe. It could have been a mechanic or a pilot, or a controller, as long as the public can blame someone, everything is just fine. Whats sad is that even pilots & professionals are jumping on the wagon and use "Bild Zeitung" information to feed their speculative discussions - knowing that at this point in time, nothing is confirmed. Thats grotesque.

 

All we really have is a French AG who shook like a young girl on a Navyship quickly releasing some but not all information within 48 hours of the crash, mentioning that the aircraft was COMPLETELY well. Within hours and the wreckage still warm and rolling down the hill, everyone was able to absolutely discount any and all technical issues.

 

I can't help but think that a lot of this stuff stinks all the way into outer- space, just the high heavens ain't enough.The funky thing will be that at some point in the distant future, those tasked with this twisted and predetermined biased investigation will release a final report - except nobody will really read or understand it.

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Posted

my .$02

 

Its all about distracting the public with drama and sensationalism. There is very little NEWS coverage, at least in the U.S. What is available is usually skewed with some political or social agenda!

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Posted

This is really such a small, statistically speaking, risk it is outrageous. This entire story is nothing but sensationalism to sell dying newspapers and cable news advertising. Hysteria over this is unwarranted and irrational.

It's a tragedy, without a doubt. But, Tragedies happen. They are unavoidable.

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Posted

This one might have been avoided if they had not eliminated the third man in the cockpit!

EDMO

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Posted

Economically unviable to have a redundant, unnecessary crewman in the cockpit. Most modern jets don't even have the ability to position a flight engineer.

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Posted (edited)

Economically unviable to have a redundant, unnecessary crewman in the cockpit. Most modern jets don't even have the ability to position a flight engineer.

Yes, redundant, except to prevent crashes - There was one horrific crash where the pilots tried to fly the plane while the flight engineer handled the throttles and got it down with some survivors.

And, he can fly the plane, or fight a co-pilot to get the door open, unlike a small stewardess.

But, a lot cheaper to replace a "C5Engineer" with a pilot-potty! :lol:

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Yes, redundant, except to prevent crashes - There was one horrific crash where the pilots tried to fly the plane while the flight engineer handled the throttles and got it down with some survivors.

And, he can fly the plane, or fight a co-pilot to get the door open, unlike a small stewardess.

But, a lot cheaper to replace a "C5Engineer" with a pilot-potty! :lol:

EDMO

I think you are talking about the United DC-10 that went down in Sioux City Iowa after the tail engine blew and severed lines on all 3 hydraulic systems.  That aircraft had a flight engineer, but the person manning the throttles was a 4th crew member drafted from the passengers.  He just happened to be the chief DC-10 instructor for United.  It was amazing they got that airplane even close to the airport.  That they almost made a successful landing was a more impressive feat than the miracle on the Hudson.  Didn't get all the press and honors that the Hudson crew did because 111 people died, but 195 lived, against odds worse than the PowerBall ticket.

 

Thankfully they didn't have a NASCAR driver in the cockpit - the airplane could only turn RIGHT.  They'd have never made it.....

 

Mark

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Posted

How about we go back to paying commercial pilots what they deserve...that would help with the depression!

I joke, but when you look at it there might actually be some truth to it. My Father was a pilot for Delta and I watched that poor guy go from being a proud employee to a grumpy SOB as he watched everything he worked for get flushed down the toilet! I'm sure all of you have heard the stories of the luxury and glory airline pilots once had and how quickly it was taken away as they were left abandoned by their companies and government.

I never went commercial, but flew in the military and I can tell you that pilots will figure out how to pass any test, psychological or otherwise no matter what is really going on in their lives! We have been taught to compartmentalize! This is how we make sound decisions while the passengers are screaming and the plane is on fire!

So, what kind of testing is going to break through and discover a pilot with evil plans? There isn't one! Also, good luck taking on the Pilot's Union! Talk to any lawyer and they will tell you that getting rid of, suspending, or punishing airline employees is damn near impossible!

Let's face it, pilots are a strange bunch! You start cracking into those coconuts and you are going to find more than you want to.

There is always going to be a nut job trying to take a bunch of people with them. The only thing we can do is educate people on the warning signs and let's also address mental illness and it's treatment (or lack there of) in our country and others.

Let's also quit talking about these losers that do this stuff! I don't want to know why he did it...I already do...HE WAS CRAZY!!! End of story. Quit showing me his face, where he lived and what his ex-girlfriend had to say! If anything they should put his face on a sticker at the bottom of every urinal until we can't remember who we are pissing on...who is that? Some crazy SOB...

End of rant...maybe I need a psych test?

Ron

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Posted

Good post, Ron. I couldn't agree more.

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Posted (edited)

If I had crashed every time I had a breakup, I would have been dead too many times!

Ron, I couldn't agree more - Good Rant - All Living Pilots should agree with you!

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri
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