Source for flaperon bushings? Or stock material suggestions?

41 posts in this topic

Posted

I'd like to replace all my bushings, as they don't quite press-fit into the flaperon hanger as they're supposed to.   Anyone know of a source, or of a good stock to make my own?  Nothing jumped out right away looking for 3/4" ID 1/16" thickness nylon. 

 

Jim

 

Avid Catalina

 

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Posted

Disregard.  If you call them flanged BEARINGS, not bushings, they show up all over Grainger or McMaster Carr. 

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Posted

hey you can't just start something and leave us all hanging like that :) could you please post a link to the parts you've found I'm wanting to build new longer flapperons this summer and haven't yet sourced the bearings. 

 

Thanks 

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Posted (edited)

Are you sure that the originals were nylon, and not PVC?

Teflon is slicker than nylon, but softer.

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

I can not say for sure Ed. If cost was not a factor RULON J would be my first choice,very slick and wears well. Used them in my Q-2 when I replaced bearings but they were smaller and just a few bucks each.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Paul,

    I will try to look up Rulon J.   Who sells it?

 Still think original bushings/bearings may have been PVC - We need Dean Wilson on here to answer questions like this - Who has contact with him?  C5Engineer?  Logtrucker?

    I sent 2 short pieces of flaperon with hangers to either High Country or Birddog - maybe one of them can look at a bushing and tell what it is made of?  Oh, but that was Kitfox 1 - so may have changed from Avid?

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted (edited)

EDIT: Please see post below, these part numbers and measurements are wrong. 

 

I ordered McMaster-Carr part # 6389K555, although it's too long, its available in 5-packs at a fraction of the cost of the 3/4" long proper size and I'll experiment with cutting it down. 

 

Grainger part # 2NCL2 seems like a perfect fit, but was a longer delivery time.   

 

Then I learned that there's a standard numbering scheme for bushings.  "XXYY-ZZ", where XX is ID, YY is OD and ZZ is length in 16ths inch.  

 

Using "1214-12 bearing" in searches turns up a ton of manufactures and vendors... including Walmart and ebay. 

Edited by cowlove

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Posted (edited)

EDIT: Please see post below, these part numbers and measurements are wrong. 

 

I also ordered some Igus RFI-1214-12 to experiment with.  They are some sort of unspecified low-friction polymer.  (But definitely not a PTFE or Rulon, based on the price.)  

 

I'll be keeping a super-close eye on the whole flaperon area as it is (I did rib tail reinforcements and made new fiberglass flaperons), so it'll be easy to watch the bushings for decent wear and material compatibility, etc. 

 

J

Edited by cowlove

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Posted (edited)

Cowlove,

      Did you buy nylon?

The first thought I have, being a retired machinist, was to use one of the rubber expanding mandrels that are used for the sanding tubes, and chuck it in a lathe, drill press, or drill motor, and use a saw blade to cut the bushing while it is spinning.

As they say down here, "There is more than one way to skin a cat"!  I never skinned a cat!  :lol:

Maybe they meant Polecat - our term for skunks?

My bearings will be larger, so I am going to look at some thin-wall PVC pipe or conduit and see how that will work.

If I remember right, Kitfox put a small hole in the steel hinge tube so you could put oil on the bushing which had been glued to the aluminum flaperon tube.

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

McMaster Carr sells the bearings in several different materials including Rulon J. I think that polyethylene would be a better choice if you want to try making your own but McMaster has those also.

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Posted (edited)

The guy (Steve?) who owns Whirlwind Propellers built a Wittman Tailwind and told me that he used PVC bushings in the flaps and ailerons, just like the original design.  Guess it works.  My design is like that plane, but there is nothing that says I cant use a better material.

EdMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

If I was starting from scratch there is no question about it I would find a bushing imbedded with graphite.  I hate oily spots that collect dirt on things.

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Posted (edited)

There is a nylon material that is graphite embedded, it is a silver/gray color - but nylon and Teflon are self-lubricating - that's why I think the original bushings were PCV or something that needed oil.

Maybe too, that the inside of the steel hinge tube might rust if not oiled ???

EdMO

Side note:  I replaced the rubber bushings on my Ercoupe steering wheel tubes with Teflon - made them a little tight - One Shot of WD40 made them so slick that there was no friction at all...and never needed it again.

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Ed I just looked at the Raven plans and they call for a nylon bushing.

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Posted

I also ordered some Igus RFI-1214-12 to experiment with.  They are some sort of unspecified low-friction polymer.  (But definitely not a PTFE or Rulon, based on the price.)  

 

I'll be keeping a super-close eye on the whole flaperon area as it is (I did rib tail reinforcements and made new fiberglass flaperons), so it'll be easy to watch the bushings for decent wear and material compatibility, etc. 

 

J

Would be interested in hearing/seeing more info on this!

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Posted

cowlove,

     How about more info and photos on building those fiberglass flaperons?

EDMO

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Posted

Hey---Ed, first , HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! Then you're question about flaperon bushings from Dean, he kinda laughed and said 'awful expensive, don't know if I should tell you or not '. Cut strips from a milk jug the right length to fit into the hinge tube,about an 1/8 inch wide on each side, roll it in then take a soldering iron and heat each side so they won't come back out. He knows of several that have exceeded two thousand hours. Sometimes he had to check several milk jugs to get the right thickness. That's the story direct from the----------'designers' mouth. Jack

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Posted (edited)

Birthdays are full of surprises - That one from Dean "Takes the Cake!"  :lol:

Thank You so much for the info.  BTW:  Tell Dean how much we appreciate him!

NOW, All we have to do is find out what milk jugs are made out of....

EDMO

I hate to mention this in the same post with his name - But....For the info of Avid Flyers:

Kitfox had a Service Bulletin to put a rivet thru the top of the flaperons into the pivot tube on each side of the hinge bushing to keep it from coming out of the hinge.

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Great piece of history there... Milk jugs are polyethylene ED.

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Posted (edited)

Paul S,

     So now we can say it:  "You were right about using Polyethylene" !!!

The milk jug story from Dean was a Classic!  Ha!

Thanks,

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

I will collect pictures of the flaperon project and make a little web post, but here's the skinny version-  original flaperons had many loose pivot tube rivets after the cross-country trailering of my plane.  In hindsight, I should have drilled and re-riveted the flaperons right there on the plane, but instead I disassembled them, and became dissatisfied with the original build quality.  I decided it would be fun to play with fiberglass, and would be a great chance to cut weight, as lighter flaperons would earn a double bonus of lighter mass balance weights. 

 

I messed around quite a bit with hotwiring my own clark-y 11.7 airfoil shapes, but ended up ordering 20 3' blanks from Eureka CNC.   Each 15' flaperon was laid up in one piece, with cutouts and flox hardpoints every 3' for a hanger pin to replace the torque tube, and hardpoints at the inboard ends for the original flaperon control horns.   It took a couple hundred hours and they did not end up being the beautiful, mesmerizing works of art and engineering that I envisioned.  The finish is mediocre and the brackets look hokey. 

 

But they're light, and have better pre-existing balance than the aluminum, so the balance weight is only 200g per side.  Total weight savings is probably about 11#.  Overall, I wouldn't do it again. 

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Posted (edited)

I will be looking forward to seeing the flaperon posts and photos - I have tossed the idea around a lot, but bought aluminum to make them - I just couldn't face doing fiberglass after 30 years of pouring it, cutting and grinding it, and itching!  Besides that, the epoxy may have contributed to my kidney cancer which made me lose one of them.

Thanks,

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

I will collect pictures of the flaperon project and make a little web post, but here's the skinny version-  original flaperons had many loose pivot tube rivets after the cross-country trailering of my plane.  In hindsight, I should have drilled and re-riveted the flaperons right there on the plane, but instead I disassembled them, and became dissatisfied with the original build quality.  I decided it would be fun to play with fiberglass, and would be a great chance to cut weight, as lighter flaperons would earn a double bonus of lighter mass balance weights. 

 

I messed around quite a bit with hotwiring my own clark-y 11.7 airfoil shapes, but ended up ordering 20 3' blanks from Eureka CNC.   Each 15' flaperon was laid up in one piece, with cutouts and flox hardpoints every 3' for a hanger pin to replace the torque tube, and hardpoints at the inboard ends for the original flaperon control horns.   It took a couple hundred hours and they did not end up being the beautiful, mesmerizing works of art and engineering that I envisioned.  The finish is mediocre and the brackets look hokey. 

 

But they're light, and have better pre-existing balance than the aluminum, so the balance weight is only 200g per side.  Total weight savings is probably about 11#.  Overall, I wouldn't do it again. 

 

Count me in as being interested in more info on your flaperon project. I will be needing to make new flaperons and wings. I've been considering several options. Experience from others is always helpful.

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Posted

<blink>MISINFORMATION ALERT</blink>  I apparently had not a single awake brain cell when I had the micrometer in hand and measured the stock bushings.    The OD of the bushings (and thus the hole in the hanger bracket) is 13/16, not 7/8.   The proper bushing family would be 1213-12, not 1214-12.  Which are a lot harder to find than the 1214's.

 

The milk jug looks like a very real possibility.  

 

 

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