Avid Wide Gear w/4" of travel and 27" Desser bushwheels

[C5Engineer 1170]

I didn't want this part of my "overhaul" to get buried in my other thread so I started a new one.

 

My Dessers arrived today. 48lbs shipped and $868 to my door. Compared to the airstreaks at $1100 PER tire that's a pretty good deal. I know we've already seen pics of these on a plane but hopefully this will provide some additional data for anyone thinking of swapping or the lurkers searching. Just a reminder these are currently only for an 8" rim. I will be using the Douglas Kitfox wheels and Matco brakes.

 

I will try and document the gear install here but for now here's a couple of teaser pics.

 

 

 

 

[Bandit 286]

Those are going to be nice!

[EDMO 1078]

WOW - If you could put one on the tail you wouldn't need floats!

EDMO

[C5Engineer 1170]

Mounted the tires today...oh boy I can't wait to see them on the plane!

 

 

Nancos

 

 

Dessers

 

[EDMO 1078]

3-step bird Joey,

1 on tire, 1 on gear leg, 1 into plane!  Instant Altitude!

EDMO

[C5Engineer 1170]

With the help of a friend we were got the gear under the plane yesterday. Wow it's a monster now! Note where the door frame is on my chest. I can stand up under the wing now. Also got the motor hung yesterday as well. Couple of more good work sessions it will be ready to taxi.

 

 

[akflyer 1427]

Very sexy!  Not you jackass the plane!  Love those tires.. may have to break down and buy the 8" matco rims and see if I can adapt my Cleveland brakes to them.

 

[Bandit 286]

Is that the Airdale gear Joey?

[EDMO 1078]

Bandit,

      Airdale used a two-piece aluminum Grove gear, designed by John Larson.

I don't know who makes the Avid gear that Joey has.  I think he told at one time when he posted about changing the springs to give more travel.

EDMO

Edited 14 Jul 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[Av8r3400 1178]

Mark, Joey started with the Airdale Bush gear.  Like everyone else's (but yours) it failed.

 

I'm not sure if the current was completely fabbed from scratch with the Airdale gear as a pattern or if the original Airdale gear was modded for the fancy gas shocks.

[EDMO 1078]

In the thread, "Overhaul Time", TJay called the gear a tk-1.    Donno if that tells you what kind?

I have searched thru a lot of posts about the wide landing gears, and also Joey's posts, and I never found out what kind of gear he has now.

EdmO

Edited 14 Jul 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[C5Engineer 1170]

It's 130am and I just got in off the jet. I will give you guys the detailed history on his set up when I get a few minutes to type. This version has a lengthy story worth sharing.

[ChrisBolkan 130]

_{Wow that looks good! Do they make those for a 6 inch wheel or just 8?}

[C5Engineer 1170]

So here is the story on this gear. Airdale came out with a "Bush Gear" a few years back. It is 10" wider and 3" taller than the stock gear. To make it maintenance free they elected to use die springs on the cabanes to eliminate all bungees. The issue with these is one they are heavy and two they had barely any travel. If a person were to prang on a landing they will bottom out metal on metal and something is going to bend. In my case the front gear leg folded in half and almost cost me my airplane. I sent mine back and started discussing with Brett a way to make it better.

 

Here is what happened to my original "bush" gear. I got off easy on this one with minimal damage all things considered. While this was certainly not one of my best landings it was certainly not my worst either. I am convinced the stock bungee gear would of soaked it up and I would have been able to continue on my way.

 

 

Version two which also came from Brett at Airdale has a heavier wall tubing, a brace between the front and rear leg, and a lighter version of the die spring which is still way too stiff. I am not sure if this is how he does them all now or just a set for me. I started trying to find an alternative to the die spring for the cabane. What I discovered through some contacts was a guy in Lincoln CA who owns a company called TK1 Racing http://www.tk1racing.com/. He's been big on the off road scene for years building crazy suspension set ups for professional rock crawler teams. He's always been pilot and wanted to develop something for airplanes and finally broke out by getting the contract to build the big long travel shocks for the JUST SuperSTOL. He is also making a strut for Avid/Kitfox/Highlander cabane type gear. I spent a weekend with him and he modified my Airdale gear down by the axle to accept the big adjustable billet rod end on his strut. That was the only mod required. He is going to provide full support on the set up of the shocks as well. As far as I know I'm the first Avid/Kitfox that will be running them. There are a couple of Highlanders running it successfully.

 

You can see the added brace by the step. Wall thickness was increased from .035 to .049.

 

Here are the two springs side by side. The one on the right was on the version 2 gear but it is still way too stiff.

 

I am hoping that this current set up is going to alleviate the bottoming issue and fuselage longeron bending issue. Time will tell.

 

Here is a picture of the TK1 Racing Cabane. The shocks are nitrogen charged oil dampened and fully adjustable with nitrogen pressure and valving adjustments. They have adjustable rod ends on the ends as well so you can get your ride height exactly how you want it. On the scale the cabane with the shocks weighed 3 lbs more than the die spring one so a total of 6 lbs total.

 

[1avidflyer 1983]

Looks like the hardest part to build is done if a guy was building his own gear and wanted to use this setup.  What kind of a cost estimate for these carbanes?  JimChuk

[C5Engineer 1170]

Jim check out his online store on that website I posted. I don't want to scare people away. They aren't cheap.....

[EDMO 1078]

Joey,

     Not knowing anything about this type of gear, except putting bungees on the J3, why is there no horizontal tube across the top of the V on this gear as compared to some others?  Looks like it would protect longerons better?  Maybe not - Just curious as to why some have it.

EdMO

Edited 14 Jul 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[KFfan 151]

I had visited his web site earlier and noticed he had models for the Kitfoxes. They look to be a good and substantial alternative to bungees. I checked the price and noticed they are probably not in my near future.

[C5Engineer 1170]

I talked to George Happ at Matco this week about my brakes. He recommended I install one of their Intensifier kits.

 

http://www.matcomfg.com/MASTERCYLINDERINTENSIFIERKIT-idv-3286-46.html

 

$19 a side and takes a few minutes to install so what the heck it's worth a try. If you have MC-4 or 5 Master Cylinders and crappy brakes this is something to consider. It's not going to be a mind blowing difference I'm sure but again for that price why not.

[Dusty 126]

I think these intensifiers would be well worth a try,is anyone using them?

My concern would be needing more travel at the pedals ,with the current geometry this could possibly create a problem getting full rudder and breaking at the same time.

Assuming a bit of loss due to a bit of give in the lines is normal?

[EDMO 1078]

Someone a long time ago tried the intensifiers and said they made a little difference in braking power, but the biggest boost was getting the pedal / mc geometry right.  See old posts - also Mikesk posts?

EdMO

Edited 23 Jul 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[C5Engineer 1170]

I've been running Mikes pedals since day one. I could do full power static run ups before. For those with marginal braking power you are correct the geometry needs fixed first.

[EDMO 1078]

I've got a couple of sets of MC-4s, but found some MC-3s and I think they are the smaller 1/2" bore already.  Also have a set of Grove MCs, and think they are 9/16 bore - about half-way inbetween the Matcos - Guess I will try the Groves and MC-3s first with my Grove double-puck Brakes and Cessna pedals, then see how they work if I buy bigger tires later.

EdMO

Edited 23 Jul 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[C5Engineer 1170]

Here is the intensifier kit for the MC-4 Master Cylinders. Supposed to boost pressure by 60%. They also have a kit for MC-5's. I've heard good things from people running them. I am installing them this week when I get out to my hangar.

 

http://www.matcomfg.com/MASTERCYLINDERINTENSIFIERKIT-idv-3286-46.html

[marksires 484]

Someone a long time ago tried the intensifiers and said they made a little difference in braking power, but the biggest boost was getting the pedal / mc geometry right.  See old posts - also Mikesk posts?

EdMO

That was me.  Yep, the intensifiers helped a little, but still could only hold about 3000 rpm.  Changed the pedals & cylinders so I could get the Matco required 2.5x geometry, and now I can hold a full runup.  No changes in calipers, and only changed the cylinders because I needed to get the short ones to get the geometry correct.  The MC-5's were just too long.

 

Mark