ELT Recommendations

[LSaupe 123]

Getting ready to install an ELT prior to the AW inspection.  Just looking for functional and low cost, preferrably without needing to add an external ant.  Just need to check the box.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Possibly this one, thought it looks like it needs a permanent external ANT installed?  If so, can the antenna stay within the confines of the fuselage?

 

http://store.leadingedgeairfoils.com/product_info.php?products_id=6469

Edited 13 Aug 2015 by LSaupe

[EDMO 1078]

Larry,

     It depends a lot on how long it takes you to bleed out! 

     But you are not required to have one during Phase 1, or flying less than 50 miles solo, so you shouldn't need one for an AW inspection.

     Here is probably more than you want to know, but someone might read it.

A long time ago I would have gone for one of the used $50 ELTs on ebay just to be legal, but getting older means that I may get hurt more in a crash than when I was 25, and I am not as strong as I was then - So I bit the bullet for about $600 and got the later model which they say will give a faster response on the 406 satellite frequency. 

     The old frequency is being phased out, and your signal may not get picked up at all.

The newer ones are supposed to locate your signal using GPS a lot more accurately than the old models.

     If you still think you are "bulletproof" and just want to be legal, then get the cheapest one.  I don't know when the new type will be mandatory, if it ever will be?

That one is not the cheapest old type -There are plenty of good used ones for sale since pilots are going to the new type.  Unfortunately, the makers got smarter, and you cant use flashlight batteries in the new ones.

They cant send out a signal without an antennae, but it usually comes with one - The small one I used to have had its own small antennae attached to it inside the cockpit.

     It's just like buying insurance - You hope you never need it...I flew Search and Rescue for 11 years before ELTs, and I have seen some bad things in small plane wrecks!

     There are some other modern methods of tracking and locating a plane, but I will have to let the guys who know about them give you details if you want to know about them.  You probably have a cel phone, but what if you are not able to use it, or if there is no tower close by

They also make PLBs (Personal Locator Beacons) which you wear, but you have to activate them manually -

They don't substitute legally for the one in the plane.

EDMO

Edited 13 Aug 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[horsepower 24]

Getting ready to install an ELT prior to the AW inspection.  Just looking for functional and low cost, preferrably without needing to add an external ant.  Just need to check the box.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Possibly this one, thought it looks like it needs a permanent external ANT installed?  If so, can the antenna stay within the confines of the fuselage?

 

http://store.leadingedgeairfoils.com/product_info.php?products_id=6469

This is the one I got for my Skyraider,it has the remote switch that is required and as far as ANT, you can mount under fuselage if you need to,they hardly stick down.Dont buy an old elt that doesnt have the remote switch or it will not pass.Randy

[EDMO 1078]

Randy,

     I've never heard of the requirement for a remote switch, although it is a good idea if you cant reach the ELT -

My new one has it.

My old ones don't have it - They were mounted in the cockpit where you could reach them.

EdMO

Edited 13 Aug 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[1avidflyer 1983]

I'm with you on that one Ed, Where does it say that the ELT has to have the remote switch? Now maybe a DAR would say he won't sign the plane off, but I don't think that is a legal requirement. I know of a DAR that wouldn't sign the plane off because it didn't have the ELT in it yet, but I think he didn't have a legal basis for that. As you mentioned Ed, an ELT is not required within the 50 mile range, and Phase one is almost always limited to 25 miles. Jim Chuk

[EDMO 1078]

Jim,

     Agree:   Unless it is in the FARs, It ain't legal - Someone would have to prove it to me.

And, Phase 1 and 50 miles is SOLO - If you put another person in the plane even in the pattern, you must have an ELT, at least that is the way I understand it.

EdMO

[KFfan 151]

I don't believe the remote it is a requirement but an inexpensive convenience.

From articles I've read, the chance of it activating on impact is not a certainty. Even with the new 406 MHZ units.

I saw a video of NASA running ELT crash tests using a Cessna.

[horsepower 24]

When I had my Skyraider inspected everything passed but the used ELT that I had put in.The DAR put my inspection on hold until the following weekend telling me to put in the new elt with the remote switch.The old ones are legal on a certified plane as thats how they were equipt at the time.He told me on a homebuilt he could not sign off with the old style without remote switch.Of course I had to pay 250.00 for him to come back the next weekend.I never found anywhere where I had to have the new style otherwise I would have already had it in there.If I were you I would call a DAR and find out for sure to save you the same hassle that I went through.Let us all know what you find out so I will know if I got screwed.Im getting kind of used to that.Randy

[1avidflyer 1983]

Just did a bit of looking at the FARs and here are the times when you do not need an ELT. Hope this cut and paste works. (1) Ferry a newly acquired airplane from the place where possession of it was taken to a place where the emergency locator transmitter is to be installed; and

(2) Ferry an airplane with an inoperative emergency locator transmitter from a place where repairs or replacements cannot be made to a place where they can be made.

(1) Before January 1, 2004, turbojet-powered aircraft;

(2) Aircraft while engaged in scheduled flights by scheduled air carriers;

(3) Aircraft while engaged in training operations conducted entirely within a 50-nautical mile radius of the airport from which such local flight operations began;

(4) Aircraft while engaged in flight operations incident to design and testing;

(5) New aircraft while engaged in flight operations incident to their manufacture, preparation, and delivery;

(6) Aircraft while engaged in flight operations incident to the aerial application of chemicals and other substances for agricultural purposes;

(7) Aircraft certificated by the Administrator for research and development purposes;

(8) Aircraft while used for showing compliance with regulations, crew training, exhibition, air racing, or market surveys;

(9) Aircraft equipped to carry not more than one person.

(10) An aircraft during any period for which the transmitter has been temporarily removed for inspection, repair, modification, or replacement, subject to the following:

(i) No person may operate the aircraft unless the aircraft records contain an entry which includes the date of initial removal, the make, model, serial number, and reason for removing the transmitter, and a placard located in view of the pilot to show “ELT not installed.â€

(ii) No person may operate the aircraft more than 90 days after the ELT is initially removed from the aircraft; and

(11) On and after January 1, 2004, aircraft with a maximum payload capacity of more than 18,000 pounds when used in air transportation.

[Doc. No. 18334, 54 FR 34304, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91-242, 59 FR 32057, June 21, 1994; 59 FR 34578, July 6, 1994; Amdt. 91-265, 65 FR 81319, Dec. 22, 2000; 66 FR 16316, Mar. 23, 2001]

Jim Chuk

PS I would think that point 4 could be said to refer to phase one flight testing, maybe also point 5. As far as the 50 mile radius, it refers to aircraft engaged in training. Flight training would be duel not solo I think.

Edited 13 Aug 2015 by Jim Chuk

[horsepower 24]

Im not a computer guy so I dont know how to attach websites but here is a DAR checklist for requirments to pass inspection.#14 on checklist shows a elt with a remote switch as a requirment.Hopefully this helps.Randy

www.spava.com/AmateurBuilt.html

[RDavidson 183]

I had an old ELT in my last aircraft and after reading a story on this forum about a guy and his family dying because they couldn't be found in time and the elements were too extreme, I decided to shell out the clams for the new ELT.

We spend crazy money on everything else to enhance safety, why would you skimp on an ELT that has the potential to be the only thing that saves your life?

I'm not the kind of guy that beats the safety drum, but when you think about things that should be most important in your aircraft, I think an ELT is in my top ten.

[EDMO 1078]

I consider myself to be one who is cautious, and try to just use some common sense:  I wont be filing a flight plan at a small country airport to fly within 25 miles of the airport for phase 1 testing - or on lots of my "local" flights -  and how long could I lay unconscious and bleeding in the forest within 5 miles of the airport with no one looking for me -

unless the ELT starts chirping and a satellite hears it! 

Better for me to spend $600 than to leave a widow who has to pay to bury me!

We searched for a month for a plane that went down, before ELTs, only to find 2 adults and 4 children had died in it - but what if we had found it in a few hours - maybe some of them would have lived....

EdMO

Edited 14 Aug 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[1avidflyer 1983]

Thanks Randy for posting this DAR's site.  I copied what he says at the top :

 

Inspection Check List for Amateur Built Aircraft

The following checklist was generated by M. K. Blalock, (D.A.R.) for use during my
inspection of Amateur Built aircraft. Feel free to print it out and share it with your friends. This is NOT an official source of information. Always contact your local FAA office for official information.

 

It is his checklist, not created by the FAA as I see it.  I just might give him a call tomorrow out of curiosity.  I'm not saying one should go without an ELT, and probably should have the 406 type as the older ones are not really reliable often times.  Jim Chuk

Edited 14 Aug 2015 by Jim Chuk

[horsepower 24]

I agree its probably not gospel but in my case I was at the DARs mercy.When he did my AW inspection the FAA inspector showed up also,he was doing a spot inspection on the DAR so I was double whammyed. Everything passed except the ELT,if I hadnt put one in at all I may have been ok but since I did it needed to have the remote.Your right about the 406 type just wish they would come down in price a little.Probably not a item to be a tight ass about but sure seems like they are really overpriced compared to other electronic gizzmos.Randy

[1avidflyer 1983]

I guess that I would have been interested in hearing their response to the question of when the FARs say you aren't required to have an ELT as I quoted above. What would he have said if this was a single seater aircraft? Does the DAR have the right to say "I don't care if you aren't legally required to have one, I think you need one and won't sign you off unless it's there." I have a friend who had his Avid inspected and signed off by a DAR and the guy barley looked at the plane. It was a cold blustery day, and he had his young kids waiting in his own aircraft. The visit took about 15 minutes total. That probably broke a few rules in the opposite direction..... Jim Chuk

[LSaupe 123]

Jim,

     Agree:   Unless it is in the FARs, It ain't legal - Someone would have to prove it to me.

And, Phase 1 and 50 miles is SOLO - If you put another person in the plane even in the pattern, you must have an ELT, at least that is the way I understand it.

EdMO

Thanks Ed.

 

However, for clarification, Phase 1 testing is authorized 2 pilots in the cockpit (through the additional pilot program AC90-116).

 

I does seem some of this is DAR specific as well.  Local EAA member you recently went through inspection needed it to pass (or at least make that person happy).

[1avidflyer 1983]

Im not a computer guy so I dont know how to attach websites but here is a DAR checklist for requirments to pass inspection.#14 on checklist shows a elt with a remote switch as a requirment.Hopefully this helps.Randy

www.spava.com/AmateurBuilt.html

Randy,  the way I copied and pasted things is to left click on the mouse and drag it across what you want to  copy.  That will highlite what you drug over.  Then right click, and a box will pop up and one of the options is copy.  Left click copy.   Then go back to your message, right click on the message and again a box will show up.  Left click paste, and what you copied on the other site will show up.   (it's magic ;-) )  Anyway that's what works for me.  If for some reason you highlited to much or to little, you can left click and the highlite goes away, and you can start over.  If you want to save or transfer the address of a web site you are at, you can do this as well. Hope my explanation makes sense.  Jim Chuk

[horsepower 24]

Randy,  the way I copied and pasted things is to left click on the mouse and drag it across what you want to  copy.  That will highlite what you drug over.  Then right click, and a box will pop up and one of the options is copy.  Left click copy.   Then go back to your message, right click on the message and again a box will show up.  Left click paste, and what you copied on the other site will show up.   (it's magic ;-) )  Anyway that's what works for me.  If for some reason you highlited to much or to little, you can left click and the highlite goes away, and you can start over.  If you want to save or transfer the address of a web site you are at, you can do this as well. Hope my explanation makes sense.  Jim Chuk

Thanks Jim,I'll give it a whirl next time.Randy

[Av8r_Sed 82]

I believe the requirement for an ELT with a remote switch and indicator is included in TSO-C91a which became a requirement for new installations after June 21, 1995.

 

See: http://www.aviationpros.com/article/10389148/new-emergency-locator-technologies

 

In any case, if I were doing a new installation I would put in a 406 MHz unit for sure.

[1avidflyer 1983]

It's +90 F here in northern MN which is close to a record, so I'm not out side as much as usual, so I did some more digging. Here is proof of what you said Sed, (is there an echo in here?) Looks like the old style ELT would be an ill eagle. I copied this from the TSO-C91a you mention:

4. The working group agreed that the FAA should immediately issue NPRM 90-11 as a final rule. This NPRM, and the final rule issued in June 1994, did not address the mandatory replacement of TSO C91 (121.5 MHZ) EL Ts; but, it did terminate their production and require that all replacement ELTs conform to TSO C91a or TSO C126. It also mandated specific maintenance and inspection requirements.

Jim Chuk

[EDMO 1078]

Thanks Jim,

      Trying to get this into the basic rules: 

1.  Your originally installed 121.5 ELT is still legal, but not as good as 406.

2.  If you replace it, the new one has to be 406 and remote if you cant reach it from seat.

3.  All new installations have to be the new type  installed as above.

Hope I have this correct.

EdMO

Edited 14 Aug 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[1avidflyer 1983]

Not quite,  the 121.5 ELT is still legal, but a new installation has to have the remote switch.  If you have an old early model ELT ( type without the remote switch) and it goes bad, you would have to update to newer style 121.5 ELT, not another early model.  The 406 has not been mandated yet but would be a legal replacement of the early model ELT (or later model 121.5 ELT for that matter).   Jim Chuk