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EXPERIMENTAL AMATEUR BUILT data plate locations

21 posts in this topic

Posted

Question on data plate locations.

 

I actually posses two data plates.  One which is rather large (squarish) and contains builder name, address, model, serial number, weights etc (the standard plate you see), plus a small one I received with my EAA labeling and registration package (small rectangular and only have builder name, model and serial number).

 

Question is:  Are both of these required?

 

What location is typically used for installation? The only flat spots I see would be the rudder tube access plates under the horizontal stab or the dash.

 

Or... is the location DAR specific?

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Posted

Mine are on the floorboards

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Posted

I left my off until the inspection because the DAR's have different ideas.  I told him where I would like it and he told me where to put.  Mine ended up on the baggage compartment door (Avid MK IV).  Drilled and riveted it in place while he was completing the inspection.  Specs say that it cannot be on a removable panel, door and etc but your DAR may not care. 

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Posted (edited)

I have been wrong before, so here goes:

I THINK - That they only data plate required is the small one from the EAA.

I THINK - That the mounting place is on the fuselage, at the tail, under, or at, the horizontal stabilizer. (One factory plane had it underneath the fuselage just forward of the rudder!)

Somewhere, I MAY have read that it could be mounted just behind the door opening - BUT this may have been the Drug Enforcement Tag once required, and maybe is no longer needed - That may be your large tag? I believe the large tag has been replaced by the small tag.

I has to be steel, not aluminum, and riveted on - not screwed on.

All of this is in the FARs, (maybe Markings,FAR 45?), and there is no guarantee that the DAR knows them.

Try contacting the EAA or FAA for verification on the above.

And, Please post what you find out on here.

EdMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Mine is on the triangle cover under the horizontal stab.

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Posted

I think some just rivet the small plate to a longeron or horizontal tube - guess it could be vertical and still be legal?

EdMO

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Posted

Mine is on the triangle cover under the horizontal stab.

Several of the Avids I've owned were in the same location. (Pilot's side of the aircraft is the requirement, I believe) Jim Chuk

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Posted

floor boards

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Posted

FAA or other law enforcement types are supposed to be able to read the plate without having to break into a locked plane.   But like others have said, call your DAR, ask him.  Just before I posted this, I went to the FAA website   FAA.gov and did a search for Data plate location.  The very first result was for Advisery Circular  AC No. 45-2D   ACs are not mandatory, but I doubt your DAR would argue with one.  Here is the paragraph that applies to your question. (on page three)  outside the aircraft so that it is legible just behind and next to the rearmost entrance door or on the side or bottom of the fuselage near the tail surface.  Jim Chuk

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Posted (edited)

Jim,

Yes, you are correct that ACs are not mandatory, but it is an explanation to FAR-45, which is the regulation for markings.

I cant remember which plane put it under the tail on the fuselage - may have been a Maule? - but the inspector would have to crawl under the taildragger plane to read it - and it did comply with the regulations.

I also think you are correct that it is supposed to be on the left side (pilot's side), although that one was in the center.

EdMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted (edited)

The  Manufacturer, Model and Serial number is what is required.  The plate with the other stuff covers that so will work too.  Most planes it is on the left side of the fuselage under the horizontal stab.  It is supposed to be attached to a structure that is not removable and will survive a fire.  That is difficult on a fabric plane.  I just made a backing plate out of aluminum to put on the inside of the fabric and riveted the plate to it.  I was thinking the DAR might want some other attachment method but he didn't say anything.

 

Just have a rivet gun, drill and such on hand to fix it on the spot if the inspector says so.

Edited by tcj

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Posted

Any other thoughts on this thread? Doing the finishing touches on my MK4 and this is on the to-do list. Technically the plate under the horizontal like my B model does not meet the requirement because it's an inspection panel.

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Posted

This requirement came out because customs wanted it years ago to ID an aircraft easily to catch drug runners. It is supposed to be near the entrance or door of the plane. Make, Model and S/N is all that is required if I remember. You can look up the reg and double check. Personally I always thought it  was usless because if you are a drug runner, all you have to do is find a plane of the same make and model and use their s/n...it was A STUPID knee jerk reaction....IF we get them back to the US , we get 10000 each.....sounds interesting but  too many bullets flyig around down there for me....

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Posted

An "Aircraft Identification Data Plate" is the plate that the FAA and US Drug Enforcement Agency mandated back in the mid 1980s that duplicates some of an aircraft’s data plate information on the outside of the aircraft, allowing DEA agents to quickly identify aircraft. Is this additional data plate still required and can you cite the regulation requiring it?

Answer
Yes, the external identification plate is still required. This is called out in 14 CFR 45.11(d), which states in pertinent part:

"The model designation and builder's serial number must be legible to a person on the ground and must be located either adjacent to and aft of the rear-most entrance door or on the fuselage near the tail surfaces. The model designation and builder's serial number must be displayed in such a manner that they are not likely to be defaced or removed during normal service."

This regulation applies to those aircraft manufactured before 7 March, 1988 that do not have their manufacturer data plate on the exterior of the aircraft.

Note that this external identification is not required to be on a fireproof plate. (The manufacturer data plate takes care of that requirement.) It only needs to be legible to a person on the ground and must be located as specified. Also, this identification should not be on an access door or cover, or anywhere where it would be removed or defaced during normal service. This external ID can be painted on, put on with a decal, or in any manner that is legible.

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Posted

some people used to get the actuall MAA or manufactures data plate and pop rivet it on theoutside of theplane sometimes tothe  fabric!!! bad idea. Ifit is lost,it isa big hassled to get a new one. A few years ago piper wanted all kinds of affidavits and $450 for a new Aircraft ID plate..... Cessna was worse. They would only issue a new ID plate if the plane was stock, NO STCs or Alterations of any kind. And this had to be verified by a Cessna Service Center,,,

Experimental are required to have an ID plate in the plane with teh same info, make model and S/N

The exterior markings Ive seen them painted on, written on with a sharpie!Just as long as it has make, model and S/N near the door entrance your good to go...

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Posted (edited)

As best I remember, none of the planes I have owned ever had the DEA tag on them.  EAA says that their simple tag on the tail is all that is required now.  I think it may have been checked more if you flew internationally or through ADIZ zones.  Once they were telling that the CAP members would be checking planes for "suspicion", but my chapter never did that - Could have got some young members in danger for that!   Also, we heard that DEA had covertly worked through Avionics shops to "fix" some transponders so that even if they were turned off they would still transmit.  I doubt if any of this ever did anything to slow down drug traffic.  If the inspector is happy with your simple data plate on the tail, then you should be good to go - unless you are running dope! 

"Don't ask - Don't Tell"!!!   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

I asked my DAR where he wanted mine, he had me put it on the baggage door.  This is another one of those things that depends on your DAR, easiest to make a list of these sorts of things and ask him in your pre inspection discussions or just leave it to install on the day of inspection. 

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Posted

On a certificated aircraft, the FARs require a fireproof ID plate attached to the airframe. Most pipers and champs had them screwed to the floor. SOme Beechcraft had them riveted to the by the  rear stablizer.

Later on the DEA had the FAA write a regulation to  add an ID information, Make,, model and s/n to be located near the rear most entrance door. Now this can be the same plate at the MAA plate but as I stated before, if you own a Cessna or Piper DONT DO IT. IF it gets lost it will cost you a lot of money to get a new one and tons of paperwork.

It is easier to just make a plate with the same info and place it by the door,

2) on aircraft that carry an Experimental Certificate, the regs still require an ID plate that shows the "manufacturer, the builder", the model and the s/n attached to the airframe. You could attach it to the outside of the airframe however once again it could easily fall or or get stolen so Id mount it inside like most do and then make a separate plate and attach by the door with "make model and s/n"

I need to get back to work. I feel like I am about to throw up  and that is because I feel like an FAA Inspector again...!!

 

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Posted

mine is on the passenger floor boards and can be seen through the doors.. and its just held on to the floor board with 4 screws!  It was like that when I got it and it passed the original inspection and the re-inspection when I had the FAA inspector come take a look at the plane to re-issue the AW after the original was lost in a fire (I had a copy but they don't seem to like those).

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Posted

Jim,

Yes, you are correct that ACs are not mandatory, but it is an explanation to FAR-45, which is the regulation for markings.

I cant remember which plane put it under the tail on the fuselage - may have been a Maule? - but the inspector would have to crawl under the taildragger plane to read it - and it did comply with the regulations.

I also think you are correct that it is supposed to be on the left side (pilot's side), although that one was in the center.

EdMO

My DAR said to put mine inside the cockpit behind the pilot. (left side)  So it could be seen without opening the door.

Just what I was told.  Don't know if he wrote it down anywhere.

My 2 cents.

Jim

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Posted

Mine was the simple/small EAA tag.  Riveted on the aluminum cover plate under the horizontal stab.  I used a DAR (due to a time crunch), however most around here forgo the cost of a DAR on go with the free option of FAA inspector.  Last I knew they were following the same guidelines with regard to what was needed for a data plate.

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