Buyer be ware ... Seller be ware

16 posts in this topic

Posted

A few words of wisdom and caution.  As most of you know I sold my Avid Catalina Kit over this past weekend.  Today I received a troubling email from the buyer.  Below is his email from today and below that is my reply.  Has anyone EVER encounter a situation as odd as this where the response is so unexpected and unwarranted?

 

Dales reply to me today ...

 

merry christmas, you just got about $3500 dollars more than this crap is worth. Guess That will be my lesson to trust no one. Used seats used instruments no nav lights, the pedals are a bad joke, and the list goes on. Not to mention the 1200$ just to travel up there. You should be ashamed of yourself. I will more than likely have to part it out to break even. Thanks for the grief............

 

 

My response to Dale's email

 

Hello Dale  (Pilot in Command)

I’m not sure how to respond to your note.  To say I am completely surprised and disillusioned and saddened would be an understatement.  The whole time you were here on Saturday I never once got the impression you were not satisfied with the condition of the kit.  I sensed you didn’t realize how many parts there were and that it might take you a little longer to assemble it … but it is an airplane ( a seaplane) kit … what did you expect?

 

You were here from 10am to 5pm …  I spent the better part of the day helping you where I could to loading everything.  ALL the parts … right down to every nut, bolt and washer was available to you to look at and review.  Almost every part was labeled and easily identifiable.  How is this in any way me ripping you off?

 

NOTHING was hidden or concealed.  YOU handled EVERY SINGLE PART.  I didn’t even plastic wrap the AN parts bins until you were just about to load them.  The CLEAR plastic bags the seat cushions were in were OPEN for you to inspect ... NOT sealed.   You even helped me double bag them.   And BTW  the seat cushions are NOT used … remember they have been stored since the kit was bought by the original owner.  Probably about 25 years.  Yes, there were a few minor blemishes on them but NO wear marks NO rips and NO tears.  How is this in any way me ripping you off?

 

YOU duct taped EVERY SINGLE CONNECTION (nut and bolt) on the control surfaces, control linkages and wing mount attachments.  There wasn’t a part of the kit YOU didn’t have you hands on.  FOUR days AFTER you arrive home … NOW you tell me this is not what you thought it would be???   Good god man … grow up!  YOU decided to buy the kit!  YOU decided to contact me after seeing the ad!  YOU phoned ME and WE negotiated a fair deal.  I sent you EVERY photo you asked for … YOU DIDN’T buy this kit sight unseen.  YOU bought it with your EYES WIDE OPEN.  How is this in any way me ripping you off?

 

No one put a gun to your head forcing you to make an offer on this kit and buy it.  I NEVER called you and asked you to buy it.  At ANY TIME before you arrived or while you were here you could have said this is not what I was expecting and decided not to buy it.  YOU had the money … the ball was in your court.  YOU had the ENTIRE kit loaded and strapped down BEFORE you even gave me the money!  How is this in any way me ripping you off?

 

You knew I would have been happy to keep the kit and put it in storage.  You knew I was not in a rush to sell it … I told you on many occasions, even while you were here loading it.  In 2009 I paid $13,600 for the kit and NEVER once felt I got ripped off.  Yes … I paid a premium dollar for it but it was what I wanted.  In 2015 I sold it to you for $8,500 … a $5,100 loss to me, remember, it also cost me $1,100 to have it shipped to Thunder Bay from Ottawa.  How is this in any way me ripping you off

 

Now that you are home you give the kit a valuation of $5,000??? … I disagree.  I think the kit is easily worth what you paid.  If you think it is only worth $5,000 then listed it and sell it at that price.  My guess is you will have people fighting to buy it at that price.  If I could get time off work I would drive down tomorrow to buy it back for $5,000.  Remember, that is the valuation you just placed on the kit.  

  

I’ll even go one step further … you bring it back in the EXACT same condition with ALL the parts … I will give you your $8,500 and put it in storage ... like I was going to do!  That is $3,500 more than what you value the kit to be worth.   Be thankful … I think most people would tell you to F.O. and be done with you!  How is this in any way me ripping you off

 

Discuss the offer with your wife show her this email ... or anyone else ... I’m betting they will all feel I am being more than fair.

 

DON’T ever say I ripped you off.  You will not find a more honest and open individual.  I pride myself on my honesty and integrity.

 

YOU of all people … someone who has owned two previous Avids … one amphibian and one Catalina, should know what they are getting themselves into. 

 

During our conversations you said both were not what you really expected and they both had issues … especially once you stripped the fabric off wings and fuselage and saw what need to be repaired.

I am sorry you had bad experiences with your two other aircraft.   

I am sorry to hear you sold your last Catalina to your friend (teacher) and now feel you got ripped off on that too! 

I am sorry to hear that your first Amphibian almost fell off the trailer and the fuselage got twisted and damaged while you were still in British Columbia. 

I am sorry you lost parts from one of your previous plane transporting it back from BC.  

I am sorry you felt the trailer you got with one of the planes was crap and needed to be rebuilt.   

I am sorry if you felt assembling this kit was more than what you expected.  

I am truly sorry, but none of that is my problem.

There seems to be a common theme here … you buy a plane … after the fact you have issues with it … and then blame others.   Try taking responsibility for your own decisions and actions … it is called growing up!

 

The ball is in your court!

 

Brian

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Posted

Typical case of buyer's remorse.  

 

I'm sorry you are getting the brunt of his venting, that is unfair to you.

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Posted

Betting that the guy caught hell from his wife when he hauled it home!

You were correct in every way. I would not hesitate to do business with you.

Sorry you had to put up with his rants.

Wishing you a better day tomorrow.

I am sure that there are others who would like to have it to build.

EdMO

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Posted

Sounds like he got a great deal but is a perpetual complainer! I've met guys like that in the Experimental world, they blame everyone but themselves for their bad decisions, bad construction, bad aircraft.

You shouldn't lose any sleep over this.

Like you said, he could easily get his money back out of it!

It is amazing how many idiots with crappy personalities are involved in flying...I often think I need to find a new hobby, but then I remember I'm an idiot with a crappy personality :)

Ron

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Posted

Yeah, don't lose any sleep or go on a guilt trip.  I recently sold an older car, very clean, low miles, no rust, decent runner.  Buyer went for a good test drive, came back and we settled on a price of $1,500 so I didn't have to look at it in my driveway anymore.  Sold as-is with a Bill of Sale saying as much.  Sure enough, three weeks later he was on the phone wanting me to split the cost of a repair.  Thought I was doing him a favor letting it go at a very fair price.  Live and learn.

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Posted

Brian I wouldn't feel bad. Sounds like you were open and honest . You offer to buy the kit back is more than generous. It sounds like he got home and realized he got in over his head and wanted to take it out on you.

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Posted

Probably the wife took it out on him and he tried to feel better by sending it down the line. On the other hand, some people are just jerks, and nothing you do will change that. Be able to look at your self in the mirror with a clean conscience and let it go at that. Jim Chuk

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Posted

Dale, should you be monitoring this site...

 

Sorry if you are unhappy with your purchase. If you need or want a quick solution that recoups most of your investment, here is an option I'd like you to consider.

 

I understand you believe the kit is only worth CDN$5000. I will pay you CDN$6750 cash for this kit, undamaged and exactly as received from Brian (subject to inspection, of course) and pick it up within just a few days depending on your location. That offer obviously is the average of the two valuations, a price which seems quite fair to me and truly a gift for you if your comments are serious (it represents a 35% premium to what you've stated the kit is worth). By my calculations, that would put you only $500 approx. out-of pocket vs. the time and hassle of taking the kit back to Brian for a full refund ($8500-$1200=$7300-$6750=$550). Depending upon your location, kit condition and my travel expenses, I may even be willing to add on some or all of that CDN$500 to make you whole.

 

I am not retired and have only a limited window to make the trip before business commitments and weather close in, so kindly respond asap. If you have any interest, just send me a PM with phone # and best time to call. I'll be in touch to discuss (to send a Private Message, click on the Member name).

 

Thanks

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Posted

Sounds like a case of drunk with a computer. Always be careful what you email once you're liquored up.

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Posted

I'd be more interested to read what kind of response, if any, Brian got to his email to Dale.

 

Not really rare that people try to renegotiate to take some serious advantage of sellers.

Sold enough airplanes and luxury vehicles to learn this lesson early on.

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Posted

Lol, don't post to anyone's Facebook page when liquored up either, that crap will follow you forever! :hammerhead:

The Art of Negotiation 101 - Rule #1: the time to renegotiate is before you sign on the dotted line and drive away with it! :blink:

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Posted

Especially when people (like me) take screenshots of the various comments. :shitfan:

Other than that, drunk Facebook postings are a good thing. Some people write the best stuff when shiftaced... 

Sometimes even good enough to offend some of the fake friends and ass kissers off a page they didn't have a good reason to be on to start with.

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Posted

I always find it difficult to follow the posters train of thought.

I suppose if I was intaxicated while reading, it would all make perfect sense.

 

Lou

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Posted

Two things in this world I hate... being sober around a drunk and being drunks around someone sober.. :lol:  Make the conversation rough to follow.  Two good drunks can carry on about nothing for hours and all is good though!  :lmao:

 

:BC:

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Posted

hi i'm new to this side (actually discover it this morning).I too sympathise with briankbski but not being there wouldn't know what's the problem was.That's clearly beetwen you and the buyer..My question is what happened to this kit,did the guy ended up selling it to dholly?is it still in Canada?(I'm from Canada as well).I hope not to get drawn to any sides just simply get answers to my questions,becouse i'm looking at several options for my first airplane and catalina is on the top list of those.

If that kit is gone maybe someone knows catalina for sale,any help will be appreciated

thanks

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Posted

:welcome: to the drama ted!

FWIW, I heard nothing from Dale and have no idea what happened to this kit. Hopefully it ends up with someone who appreciates it.

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