Amphibian project resurrection & modifications

141 posts in this topic

Posted

I have severe shop envy.

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Posted

Likewise, although moving that table is not something I'd want to undertake.  Must weigh at least a ton!

 

Mark

 

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Posted

Likewise, although moving that table is not something I'd want to undertake.  Must weigh at least a ton!

 

Mark

 

little over a ton & moving it around is best accomplish with the fork lift.  

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Posted (edited)

I started building the 912 engine mount with the bed pice that bolts to the isslation mount and then started fitting in the tubing between the isolation mount base and the frame that bolts to the airframe.

 

Luke

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Edited by lukemn
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Posted

damn, you have more iso mounts on that than the 0470 in my 180 :lol:  That bugger should be super smooth!  Nice work Mr!

 

:BC:

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Posted

What was the height of the prop centerline from the table on the original mount?  what size tubing did you use to make the new mount?  I am just trying to get some tubing ordered up so I can have it there when I get home to start fabbing.  Also, where did you get the ISO mounts? 

 

:BC:

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Posted

I think I will keep as much of the stock mount as you have done, then make what I need (pretty close to your design) to mount my engine upright yet maintain the same thrust line.  with the increase in ponies, I think just adding gussets to the stock mount will be enough to handle the extra 60 or HP the 800 will put out.  It will be something I keep a close eye on during testing to make sure nothing is getting tweaked at WOT.  I have 2 stock mounts so I cant screw up too bad :lol:

 

:BC:

 

 

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Posted

Hi akflyer:

Congrats on the "new" aircraft!!!  the 800cc monster mounted on there should make for some good times flying!!  Sorry and or congratulations? to hear about your AIDS (Aviation Induced Devoice Syndrome) seems to be all to common around my airport but that what happens when guys are sneaking out of the house late at night to spend hours rubbing on there Cessna's .... I did mention that I polished my C150 right?......:rolleyes:...lol

 

The tubing on the stock mount is 1/2" .035 4130 - I used 1/2" .049 4130 sourced from aircraft spruce (best pricing I could find) and .090 flat stock 4130 for the tabs and other little parts.  I have a few gussets to add to the mount for beefing it up I'll post pictures of them ASAP.  The ISO mounts are from a Sea Ray aircraft or Buccaneer aircraft.  I got the mount off Ebay and the seller only knew it fit a 912 but not what aircraft it was from my best guess is an early sea-ray.  For locating things (prop location)  I made a mock-up 582 bolted it all up located the prop flange with the mock-up and went from there not all too much measuring involved in that part of the fabrication.  (review the first part of this thread for more on that)  Things I did measure were the prop location relative to the flaperons for blade flex clearance in my case I need 5" of prop clearance it's important to note the engine dose not mount square to the canter line of the airframe the thrust line is slightly to the co-pilot side of the tail it's not far off but noticeable at the tips of the prop blades.  I'd be glad to box up the mock-up 582 I built and send it your way if that would help things along with your build PM me an address and it will be on the way this week.

Luke

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Posted

No need to send the mock up, I have a 582 I can use to make the jig in the garage.  I was just looking for a rough idea how much tubing to order.  I will get a couple sticks on the way, I can always find a use for any left over tubing. 

My plan is to use the actual mount for the 582 and bolt a plate onto the bottom of the 800 to match the holes up with the stock mount but have it flipped so the engine sits right side up.  A few extra tubes and gussets and hopefully she will hold together!

It was not quite and AIDS, but it damn sure cut into the A part of it :lol:   The hardest part of this motor mount thing will be fabbing up a new welding table I have been putting off for years.

 

:BC:

 

 

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Posted

akflyer;

So now that your working on an amphibian live in snow country and probably are spending as much time as I am thinking about fun things to do with your amphib when it's done.  What’s your thoughts about putting skis on one? (wheel skis in particular) (gear locked down) I've been looking it over and think it can be done the skis will need to be custom built as not to interfere with the inboard sponsons and some creativity in locating the limit cable anchor points.  As long as the limited ground clearance is taken into account I think the amphib could make for some fun ski plane flying with well thought out skis. I could be completely wrong as my ski flying experience is limited to a few hours in a cub as a passenger.  I have some experience in a HU-16 triphibian Land / Water / Snow  / it's a much larger aircraft in snow operations it can land on it's haul not an option for the Avid as the hull is to light for landing but should stop the aircraft from sinking in if in deeper powder.  The little bit of ski flying I've done could be accomplished with wheels frozen lakes or ploughed runways so skis may be over kill.

Luke

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Posted

I have thought about that as well.... my thoughts.  As low slung as this bird is I doubt ski's would be a very good option.  I can see the fuse getting ripped up by a snowmachine track or hard ice crust on top of the snow.  That fabric wont take a whole lot of abuse and it it going to be dragging in the snow unless you put some ridiculously tall pedestals on the ski's.  If you are only flying off of groomed strips then you should be fine with it, or if your landing in areas of only virgin powder.

hmmm... may have to look at putting some mount tabs on the fuse rails so one could fasten something like the old roll up toboggans on the bottom of the fuse to protect the fabric :)   Where there is a will there is a way. 

 

:BC:

 

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Posted

Instead of poly brush, brush in fiberglass resin...

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Posted

Working on the lower raditor mount points.

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Posted

Grommets and raditor test fit in lower mount.

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Posted

Starting to work up some ideas for the upper raditor mount.

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Posted

Looking good!  I wish I was at home working on mine right now!

 

:BC:

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Posted (edited)

I have ski flying on the brain today check out the CHE-24 amphibian doing it's thing on the snow!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdCXxqVEm8U

Edited by lukemn

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Posted

Wings or at least what I have left of them to work with. Going to need some advise on this how it's  best to rebuild / update? them.  I've been reading up on other threads on the site lot's of good information but I'm still lost.  I built the sawhorses as per the build manual and removed the covering from one wing it wasn't pretty parts started falling out and I found more rodent nests. There seems to be lots of ribs delaminating from the spars. Any advise is helpful I'm thinking total rebuild with some updates metal trailing edge some addtional gussets on cross bracing ect.

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Posted

A heat gun will soften up the structural adhesive and it will peel right off with a putty knife.  A scotchbrite scuff to the spar area will help with adhesion to the spars.  For wood to wood joints I used gorilla glue after many tests with structural adhesive, T66, 30 minute and 1 hour hobby epoxies etc.  The gorilla won hands down.  One of the mechanical engineers here at work was building a wood framed kayak and asked me what glue to use.  I told him about the gorilla glue and being an engineer he had to do the same tests I did but in a more methodical manner.  After testing glues every which was from sunday using scales and jigs and all the shit that makes engineers not need viagra he came to the same conclusion I did.

If I were you, I would take out a bunch of the washout in those wings while your at this stage of the game.  I think 1/2" is what kitfox is using now and I would go to that.  I think our planes leave a lot of performance on the table with the 1 3/4" washout.  When you look out the window in cruise you will note that half the leading edge of the wing is pointed WAY down and "digging" in.  You may have to adjust the strut a little but at the end of the day I truly believe it will be well worth it!

:BC:

 

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Posted

While your at it you may think about getting rid of the tip floats and going to the full lotus sponson floats as they are ALOT lighter.

 

:BC:

 

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Posted (edited)

While your at it you may think about getting rid of the tip floats and going to the full lotus sponson floats as they are ALOT lighter.

 

:BC:

 

Been thinking about full lotus sponsons.  I like the idea of being able to unbolt them for cold weather flying.  Not sure how the weight works out looking at the lotus site the sponsors are listed at 7lbs each plus some rigging and hardware add in a wing tip and  the total installed weight might be pretty close to the tip sponson weight.  What's your thought's on the aerodynamics one way or the other?

Edited by lukemn

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Posted

Luke,  butting in on your conversation with Leni - If you are going to use the old Avid (2216?) glue, then get the instructions - they are a little different than the ones for 9460 about preparing the aluminum spars for glueing - I think.  I might have them in an old Kitfox 1 manual?

EDMO

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Posted

Wing decisions:

Things I'm sure about.

1 - The wings need to come allmost all the way apart

2 - There are several of the wood pieces that I'll need to reproduce 

3 - The condition of the wings are poor but... It makes for an excellent time to incorporate some of the many "updates" and improvements that have been worked out over the last 20-30 years since there orginal design. 

4 - I've seen some great build thread's on this site and incredible talented builders so I'm in the right place to find the information I need

 

Things I need to work out:

1 - Ribs / what plywood to make them out of / best rib profile undercamber / speed / or......

2 - Flaparon ribtail desgine / what's the best update for this troubled area?

3 - Drag tubes I have 1 steel by root and 2 aloy in the wings is this the best way to go?

4 -Washout???? There seems to be a less is better vib on this

5 - Spar stiffeners the best type if I'm changing them out

6 - Most up to date adhisives to use / gorilla glue wood to wood / how about wood to aloy?

7 - Sponsons - wingtip or full lotus strut mounted

8 - Other things you would do if building your wings today 

Any help on this is much appreciated as I'm not all that good at doing wood work and have very limited experience building wings

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Posted (edited)

Luke,  butting in on your conversation with Leni - If you are going to use the old Avid (2216?) glue, then get the instructions - they are a little different than the ones for 9460 about preparing the aluminum spars for glueing - I think.  I might have them in an old Kitfox 1 manual?

EDMO

Hi Ed:

Not butting in at all. I'm not sure what I'm going to use I have been researching what's the best of currently avable adhesive's. The prep doesn't look too bad on the wings so I'm thinking the orginal adhisives used were not mixed right or simply failed after years of not being stored or handled properly. If you look close in the picture you can see where the prep was done its shinny with a slight cross hach look.

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Edited by lukemn

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Posted

Luke,  butting in on your conversation with Leni - If you are going to use the old Avid (2216?) glue, then get the instructions - they are a little different than the ones for 9460 about preparing the aluminum spars for glueing - I think.  I might have them in an old Kitfox 1 manual?

EDMO

Hi Ed:

Not butting in at all. I'm not sure what I'm going to use I have been researching what's the best of currently avable adhesive's. The prep doesn't look too bad on the wings so I'm thinking the orginal adhisives used were not mixed right or simply failed after years of not being stored or handled properly.

I would imagine there must have been a reason for Kitfox to change from 2216 to 9460?

EDMO

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