Wing Fuel Tank Needed


22 posts in this topic

Posted

To all the Kitfox owners out there, wonder if you could help me or do you know?

 

I have an Avid Speedwing Mk 4, the 13 gallon right wing tank (as from the cockpit) has rotted due to ethanol. I see that Kitfox sell ethanol resistant tanks, will a Kitfox tank fit an Avid and if so which model Kitfox?

 

Simon  G-BUIR

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Posted (edited)

Simon,  I replied to your other post already, but didn't realize you had a speed wing.  I think it's more likely the Kitfox tank will fit the speed wing than the STOL undercambered wing.  Look at my other post for the dimentions I was given off a Kitfox tank.  Another thing to consider is the fuel tanks that are meant to side inside your existing tank.   Here is a link to them.  http://wingtanks.com/   Jim Chuk

Edited by 1avidflyer
added info

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Posted

Wing tanks.com is Brett from Airdale. Don't look for any type of response from him. 

Didnt the tank supplier for Kitfox post here as willing to sell Avid tanks direct?  He won't sell the Kitfox tanks but I thought he said he'd sell the avid tanks due to the lack of support from Brett. 

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Posted

Thanks Jim for information. I have tried wingtanks.com, but have never had a reply despite three emails. 

I will check the dimensions, again thanks for your feedback. Need to get this plane back in the air ASAP where she belongs.

 

Cheers

 

Simon

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Posted

If anyone knows the supplier for Kitfox tanks that would be great.

My other option is to get the tank made up in Aluminium, already had a  custom and classic motorcycle makers say they can do the job here in UK.

Cheers

 

Simon

 

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Posted (edited)

If anyone knows the supplier for Kitfox tanks that would be great.

My other option is to get the tank made up in Aluminium, already had a  custom and classic motorcycle makers say they can do the job here in UK.

Cheers

 

Simon

 

Simon,

      Don't waste your time and money on aluminum tanks - Avid tried that years ago and they just don't hold up because of the flexing of the wings.

      Look on here for the supplier of wing tanks - you can get them cheaper than the Kitfox tanks.

      Try typing in Wing Tanks, or Suppliers at the top for searching.

It could be All Pro Composites, or something like that...I think he was Ron OR rob?

EdMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted (edited)

I actually talked to Ron at All Pro Composites today. He does not supply wing tanks for Kitfox. He used to make Avid wing tanks some time ago, but no longer.

[edit] I think you may be thinking of Rob Schramm. Website doesn't come up anymore but he has a Facebook page.

Performance Products LLC
Melba, ID 836414250
Phone: (208) 761-8244
www.performanceproducts1.com

Edited by dholly
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Posted (edited)

Rod at performance products makes them.  made one in february for my avid.  actually a kitfox tank.  fits fine

 

Edited by thebriman
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Posted (edited)

Simon,  maybe you already tried this, but if the tank is just leaking, could you use a tank sealer?  I used KBS Coatings tank sealant one time and it seemed like good stuff.  It was in completed wings.  Set them on saw horses, and rolled them and tipped them up and down lots of times (by myself).  I would think you could do it once and then a couple of days later another coat for a heavier coating.  The stuff is not at all watery, a bit on the thick side, and it seemed to stick well to everything.  Just a thought, and if it worked, it would be way easier and cheaper than replacing a tank.  Jim Chuk

Edited by 1avidflyer

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Posted (edited)

Simon,  maybe you already tried this, but if the tank is just leaking, could you use a tank sealer?  I used KBS Coatings tank sealant one time and it seemed like good stuff.  It was in completed wings.  Set them on saw horses, and rolled them and tipped them up and down lots of times (by myself).  I would think you could do it once and then a couple of days later another coat for a heavier coating.  The stuff is not at all watery, a bit on the thick side, and it seemed to stick well to everything.  Just a thought, and if it worked, it would be way easier and cheaper than replacing a tank.  Jim Chuk

Has anyone tried CASWELL epoxy sealer on glass tanks?  It is used in motorcycle steel and aluminum tanks.

EdMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

I almost mentioned  Caswell in my last post, but didn't because I never used it.  From what I've read about it, it's supposed to be good also. Jim Chuk

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Posted

Thanks everyone for some very helpful bits of information, We are not really allowed to use sealer in tanks in UK for aircraft. 

We have been approved for in the last few months to use forecourt gas with up to 5% ethanol officially in any aircraft using Rotax engines in the UK (though of course everyone has been flying with it in their tanks for a long time as most gas contains ethanol here).

However we have to have it signed off this means all fuel pipes, all engine parts are to be compatible. Fuel tank has to be made of ethanol resistant material, and must not have a sealant in it, also need to conduct a fuel flow test on mechanical and electric fuel pumps, sight glass to be made of glass if possible so fuel can be clearly seen.

I think I have three options call Kitfox and get a tank sent across, or I get my old tank and cleaned up on the outside and apply a thin layer of glass fibre using Vinlyester resin which is resistant to the outside.

Last option I use a certified tank fabricator to make an aluminum tank that will not distort in the wing, this would be the very expensive option.

 

Simon

 

 

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Posted

Putting a layer of glass on the outside may stop the leaking, but the internal dissolving resin will still clog your filters and possibly damage your engine. 

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Posted

Yes of course, will drop that idea, I'm speaking with my inspector later today for his advice, I will also speak with Kitfox. I have also had a fabricator of Aluminium fuel tanks for light planes come back, so will discuss the options, they say they can do it and will look at the fatigue problem for aluminium. It maybe that things have moved along since Avid did it and this can be factored in. Will keep you all updated as I guess its an issue that will occur again as more ethanol is used. 

 

Simon

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Posted

The problem with aluminum is the tank is structural to the wing. Yet the wing flexes. If the al tank is tight enough to serve the structure purpose it will flex, fatigue and crack. 

If the tank is undersized to allow the wing to flex, then the bay the tank is in will need to have structure for drag/anti-drag added.  Seriously complicating the install. 

Piper used aluminum tanks (in a far more rigid wing) but had tubes through the tank to allow wire bracing of the internal wing structure. 

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Posted

OK, so fibreglass tanks could become an issue as they break down from ethanol, the tank I have taken out is breaking down which would I guess compromise the wing structure eventually? So probably done the right thing taking it out

 

Simon

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Posted (edited)

I used Caswell in my tanks before building my wings after doing the research into the epoxy (phenol novolac epoxy) that they sell and can recommend their product.  If you have the tank removed it is an easy process and fully explained on the website.  I looked into vinyl ester resin also but could not find good info about how well it would stick to the polyester resin of the fuel tanks.    

Vinylester resin is a good choice for building a new tank which is not that difficult of a project if you want to tackle it but much easier to order from The vender Doug mentioned in his post.

Here is a link to Caswell:

http://www.caswell.com

PS I have a test block of the caswell epoxy setting in gasohol for the last three years and it is still solid and I should add that I will never put gasohol in my plane unless there is a pressing reason but we do have alcohol free fuel for auto here where I live.

Paul

 

 

Edited by wypaul
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Posted

Thanks will check this out as well, was also thinking of making the tank myself if it had to be done.

 

Simon

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Posted

The problem with aluminum is the tank is structural to the wing. Yet the wing flexes. If the al tank is tight enough to serve the structure purpose it will flex, fatigue and crack. 

If the tank is undersized to allow the wing to flex, then the bay the tank is in will need to have structure for drag/anti-drag added.  Seriously complicating the install. 

Piper used aluminum tanks (in a far more rigid wing) but had tubes through the tank to allow wire bracing of the internal wing structure. 

You know, the aluminum wing tanks in my Aeropro do this as well. A drag tube runs right through them. Never been a leak or failure reported, knock wood...

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Posted (edited)

Thanks everyone for some very helpful bits of information, We are not really allowed to use sealer in tanks in UK for aircraft. 

We have been approved for in the last few months to use forecourt gas with up to 5% ethanol officially in any aircraft using Rotax engines in the UK (though of course everyone has been flying with it in their tanks for a long time as most gas contains ethanol here).

However we have to have it signed off this means all fuel pipes, all engine parts are to be compatible. Fuel tank has to be made of ethanol resistant material, and must not have a sealant in it, also need to conduct a fuel flow test on mechanical and electric fuel pumps, sight glass to be made of glass if possible so fuel can be clearly seen.

I think I have three options call Kitfox and get a tank sent across, or I get my old tank and cleaned up on the outside and apply a thin layer of glass fibre using Vinlyester resin which is resistant to the outside.

Last option I use a certified tank fabricator to make an aluminum tank that will not distort in the wing, this would be the very expensive option.

 

Simon

 

 

I would use a 4th option, and call or contact Rob at Precision for a price on a tank - I would bet that it will be 1/2 of Kitfox price.  I have made lots of parts out of fiberglass and epoxy, and don't think that you could make your own any cheaper when you consider the materials and  work involved too.

EdMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted (edited)

I used Caswell in my tanks before building my wings after doing the research into the epoxy (phenol novolac epoxy) that they sell and can recommend their product.  If you have the tank removed it is an easy process and fully explained on the website.  I looked into vinyl ester resin also but could not find good info about how well it would stick to the polyester resin of the fuel tanks.    

Vinylester resin is a good choice for building a new tank which is not that difficult of a project if you want to tackle it but much easier to order from The vender Doug mentioned in his post.

Here is a link to Caswell:

http://www.caswell.com

PS I have a test block of the caswell epoxy setting in gasohol for the last three years and it is still solid and I should add that I will never put gasohol in my plane unless there is a pressing reason but we do have alcohol free fuel for auto here where I live.

Paul

 

 

Paul,

     I have my doubts about any alcohol still being in that gas after 3 years of setting - How about refreshing the E-gas at least once a year, or every six months, and see what happens to the Caswell - I hope that nothing happens, because that is my "Plan B".

EdMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

I do have the jar sealed but if I think about it I will get some gasohol and refresh it.  Phenol novolac epoxy is what they use in industrial setting to protect against alcohol destroying tanks and the likes so I am sure that much better tests have been conducted.  Guess I could just pour in a little Gin every now and again:lmao:  Just can't stand the thought of putting alcohol into gasoline.

Paul

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