Posted 18 Nov 2015 Is anyone else using a Simonini Victor 2 on an Avid Flyer or Kit Fox?I changed from an old Rotax 532 a few years ago. At that time I found very little information and almost no first hand experience on this engine and, once I have decided to buy it, I created a blog to to share my experience and eventually get in contact with other Simonini Victor 2 users.2 years ago I made a hard landing and took the opportunity of the repair to completely rebuild my plane. My blog changed direction during this work and became the "Oratex adventure". However, I have now (finally) completed the restoration and my blog is now again the Avid Flyer Simonini Victor 2 adventure. I'll pick up where I left. i.e. at 63 hours of pure joy on the engine. At my last flights (2 years ago) I was consuming 30% less than with my old 532 and have had no issues (but 63 hours is nothing...). However, going from 60 HP to 92 I had to increase the pitch on my 3 blade warp drive so much that I think I lost efficiency. I now have a new 2 blade fixed pitch prop made specially for the engine and plane. We will see what difference it makes. I will continue posting my experience on my blog and happy to answer any questions. 5 people like this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 19 Nov 2015 what diameter was your 3 blade prop, and what diameter is your new 2 blade? That looks like a very clean instal on the engine! 1 person likes this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 19 Nov 2015 Hi Fred,I like your blog. I've read it in the past. It's nice to see what you're doing when I can't work on my own Avid project. Thanks for sharing.Luke D. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 19 Nov 2015 Hi akflyer,my 3 blade Warp drive (excellent propeller for ROTAX 532/582) was 66 inches. Ground variable pitch that I had to increase radically to keep the maximum RPM on the much more powerful Simonini (92HP). Increased so much I had the feeling of flapping the air rather than carving it... I'm just exaggerating slightly...My new 2 blade prop is 73 inches and 46 inch pitch. I would not have mind to swing an ever bigger prop (one propeller designer told me 76 inches would be optimum) but I wanted to stay withing the safety limits for ground clearance. Don't be fooled by the tundra tires, ground clearance is counted with flat tires... 2 people like this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 19 Nov 2015 Hi akflyer,my 3 blade Warp drive (excellent propeller for ROTAX 532/582) was 66 inches. Ground variable pitch that I had to increase radically to keep the maximum RPM on the much more powerful Simonini (92HP). Increased so much I had the feeling of flapping the air rather than carving it... I'm just exaggerating slightly...My new 2 blade prop is 73 inches and 46 inch pitch. I would not have mind to swing an ever bigger prop (one propeller designer told me 76 inches would be optimum) but I wanted to stay withing the safety limits for ground clearance. Don't be fooled by the tundra tires, ground clearance is counted with flat tires... That"s why I have extended gear on mine.... I like ground clearance for playing in deep snow, big rocks and tall grass. I also like the AOA that it gives me so I can get in and out shorter and not drag the tail wheel as much. 1 person likes this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 25 Nov 2015 Fred:I've been looking at your blog from time to time for a couple of years now. I enquired several times at Simonini USA in Florida and never received a single reply. I used e-mail to contact the company in Italy and actually received a telephone call from Mr. Simonini himself. Still, with no visible support in the US I bought a Rotax 912UL and am converting it to the big bore Zipper conversion for 104 hp. More weight and complexity but presumably longer life and reliability. We'll see. My install will be a Zenith CH-701. I suppose the only downside to your Simonini install is the spark plug fouling when the engine is idle for a few days. There are thousands of Rotax 582 inverted installs out there and I've never heard of the problem. Just because I've never heard of it doesn't mean it isn't happening, so maybe the fuel shutoff valve will resolve the issue. And the airplane, with the new tires, prop, and cover, looks stunning! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 25 Nov 2015 Emory,thanks for reading my blog ! Did you see my 10 December 2013 post about the NGK BPR9ES spark plugs, where P stands for "Projected insulator type"? I have the plugs in but don't have 1 st hand experience to share yet but Simonini Victor 2 friends tells me they resolved the fouling problem. "P" plugs are also used for inverted Rotax 2 strokes to resolve the same issue. It won't help you, but might help someone else...RegardsFred Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 25 Nov 2015 (edited) On the Avids I've owned with an inverted engine, the plugs would get full of oil/fuel mix after sitting for a while. When I went to start them when cold, I would crank it over without priming for a few revolutions to blast that oily stuff out of the plugs. Then prime it and they would go. If you primed it right away, sometimes it would flood and you would be pulling and cleaning plugs. Jim Chuk Edited 25 Nov 2015 by 1avidflyer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 25 Nov 2015 and by the way, nor fuel valves or even running the carburetors dry will help when you have this issue, after 10 days - we tried all... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 1 Dec 2015 and by the way, nor fuel valves or even running the carburetors dry will help when you have this issue, after 10 days - we tried all...No, there is just so much oil in the crankcase and rotating assembly. Every two stroke I have ever torn down were dripping with oil. Even if run lean and smoked a piston. Just a nature of the beast when running inverted I guess. That sure is a nice looking set up. Curious what is the red piece under the carbs? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 2 Dec 2015 (edited) By chance is it a direct replacement for the Rotax (with regard to bolt mount patterns etc.)? Or did you need to fab a custom motor mount (due to HP or bolt pattern? Best of luck getting her back in the air. That has to be an impressive amount of HP for that bird. Edited 2 Dec 2015 by LSaupe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 2 Dec 2015 (edited) By chance is it a direct replacement for the Rotax (with regard to bolt mount patterns etc.)? Or did you need to fab a custom motor mount (due to HP or bolt pattern? Best of luck getting her back in the air. That has to be an impressive amount of HP for that bird. Bolt up according to their website. One wonders if the flange is in the same place though. Cowl differences? Dunno. Also, the red casting someone commented on is the water jacket manifold as you can see from the photo. http://www.simoniniusa.com/?page=Engines&Engine=Victor-2-Plus Edited 2 Dec 2015 by Emory Bored Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 2 Dec 2015 L Saupe and E Bored,Good and bad news... As you can read on my blog (scroll down to April 2011 and see also May 2011) the bolt pattern is the same and the propeller axis will exit so close to 532 that no real modification to the cowl is required. Less than 1 cm lower and increasing so slightly the spinner diameter fixes that...Now to the "bad" news.. While the same bolt pattern is probably all that matters if you mount "free air" on a gyro or trike the different shape of the engine might not be compatible with your current "under cowling" engine mount. The rear part is wider and the starter is placed on the side of the engine (where is should be) and not protruding at the back where no one want it... (how did they think?). I had to partially modify the engine mount and the shape of the firewall.I also modified the the back-plate of the engine and moved the coils to save some space (and gained some weight!). I also added a small bulge to the cowling to avoid the spark plug caps from touching the cowling. It was close with the 532 and even closer with Victor 2 - this might not be your case depending on cowling. This is the only area where cowling might need to be modified due to the shape of the engine.The exhaust pipes might require you to cut a slot somewhere but most likely not to change the over all shape.RegardsFred 1 person likes this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 7 Dec 2015 1) It the STOL performance better than the Rotax 912?2) How much lighter is this combo than the 912?3) Im guessing the torq isnt there but the HP is in par. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 7 Dec 2015 Hi Lorenz,if I answer the questions in reverse order I think the 3rd one will be obvious...3) I have not personally measured, and even less compared, the torque for nor Simonini Victor 2 or Rotax 912. But as you can easily find on the web they have the same torque (103NM) if we compare the Victor 2 to 912 UL (I'll let you compare Victor 2 plus and Vioctor 2 S to 912ULS and 914UL...)2) Yes, Victor 2 is even lighter than the Rotax 582 so you will gain over 10kg (22lbs +)...so with the same torque, more horse powers, the instant acceleration of a 2 stroke and less weight the answer is given.. takeoff and climb is outstanding and the less weight you have when landing the better it is.I will soon provide new in flight numbers as I'm now trying my new propeller. The ground tests yesterday were very promising...I hope this helpsRegardsFred 1 person likes this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 7 Dec 2015 Would you mind passing the owners email or contact info to me. I've talked with the US rep and wasn't so impressed. Sean @ lorenzindustries.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 7 Dec 2015 Hat does you fuel consumption look like after the 682 swap? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 7 Dec 2015 Lorenz,I'm not sure I'm reading you correctly. Who do you refer to when you say "the owner", if you mean the owner of the engine you are already talking to him. If you want a private conversation with me this forum provide direct contact between members. If you mean the manufacturer you can eaily find Siminini Italy on the web.In regards to fuel consumption I mentionned a 30% reduction going from my old 532 (the single ignition version of 582) that easily cinsumed up to 18 liters while I'm now down to 12,5 liters per hour. More details can be found on my blog (see below) that I created with the intention to share my experience with the Simonini Victor 2 engine. You need to scroll back 2 years as I have had a interuption in the fying due to a complete rebuild.I now starting flying again and have a new propeller that after the first ground test appears very promising. I will be posting information shortly on the blog.RegardFred Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 Dec 2015 (edited) Sorry, you mentioned in your blog or on here that the owner of Semonini returned your email or call. Thats the contact Info I was looking for. I Used thier website to find the US distributors contact info and wasnt so impressed with thier responces to simple questions. The owner of Simonini is who Im looking to talk to next. Edited 8 Dec 2015 by LORENZ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 Dec 2015 No problem. You have the link to Simonini Italy in the link section on my blog, but I'll make it simple for you, here is a link to the page with English pre-selected... You will have to click "Contact" or scroll to the bottom of the page.I hope this helpsRegardsFred Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 9 Dec 2015 Lorenz,In regards to the US distributor in Florida, I had the same experience with them. I'm interested in the engine, but am not impressed with the us distributor. I think he's more into the smaller engines for the powered parachutes. Bryce Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 9 Dec 2015 I confirm, Simonini is big in powered parachutes where the competition is less dominated by Rotax. Everyone say that are very interested in the Victor 2 engine but that "next time" they change they will take Simonini... In Europe Victor 2 is popular for auto giros (new thinkers) while all other have been eating Rotax for breakfast, lunch and dinner for so long they actually think it should taste that way... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 22 Dec 2015 Hey Fred,I know enough Italian to be able to order dinner at The Olive Garden, a national American Italian chain restaraunt! Do the folks at the Simonini factory speak English? I think those of us in the US are going to have to go straight to the factory. Also, I really enjoy your blog and appreciate all your hard work you put into it! Bryce 1 person likes this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 22 Dec 2015 Bryce,Enzo Simonini replies in good english to email. I have not spoken to him directly on the phone.Fred 2 people like this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 23 Dec 2015 How goes the flight testing Fred? Happy so far? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
