Carbon Fiber lessons learned

[RDavidson 183]

Well, I have an expensive lesson learned to share...

I was planning on making a carbon fiber instrument panel.  I have a buddy that works at a fab shop and he was going to water jet it for me.  So I searched eBay and found a company that had a piece of CF that was the right size for about $250.  It showed up in a week or so and had a great look to it, I was excited.

My buddy does some great work and we passed a template back and forth until we had the cad file just right.  He sent me a video of him water jetting the beautiful piece of CF.  However, a week went by and I hadn't heard from him, so I called him up and he was beside himself.  Evidently, the reason the piece of CF looked so good was because the top layer was not carbon fiber, but some kind of epoxy.  So, when the water made it to the different material it bubbled under that layer.  He said when it was wet coming off of the machine it looked fine, but as it dried the bubbles were prevalent.

He is such a good guy, that he bought a new piece of carbon fiber out of his pocket and refused to let me pay him back.  He is cutting the new piece early next week.

After all of this I'm wishing I would have just made an aluminum panel!  But it should look good when we get it right.

I'm attaching a pic of the bubbled CF panel and also a pic of our stainless panel with my "poor man's glass panel" using 2 iPads.  The iPads will sit up higher on the panel when mounted and both are able to be removed easily, with the Pilot's side having Airspeed, VVI, Altimeter, and slip indicator behind the iPad.  I did that so I could teach someone to fly on the basic gauges or pull the iPad off if that system goes down.

I can't wait to get it mounted!

 

Ron

 

[EDMO 1078]

Kool idea - so sorry I didn't let you know about my big aluminum panel before you went to all that work.

Water Jets just don't like layered material...

EDMO

Edited 22 Jan 2016 by EDMO

[marksires 484]

All 'carbon fiber' is layered material.  It is just fiberglass that uses carbon strings instead of glass strings.  And in most applications, it isn't any better than fiberglass, except at lightening you wallet!

Some other fun facts about carbon fiber vs. fiberglass.  

Fiberglass is transparent to radio waves, carbon fiber is not.  No antennas work inside carbon fiber, just like metal.

Fiberglass is not reactive with metals (doesn't cause corrosion/rust), Carbon Fiber is highly reactive, so if your part mates to a metal piece you have to make sure the carbon part is completely encapsulated in the resin, and that vibration/fretting won't cause it to touch the metal.  

Carbon fiber is stronger (in tension) and stiffer than fiberglass.  So don't substitute carbon fiber for a portion of a fiberglass part.  The entire load will be carried by the carbon fiber substitution (since it is stiffer), right up until it fails, then all the load will transfer instantly to the weaker than designed fiberglass part, which generally fails instantly.

Mark

[RDavidson 183]

Mark,

I knew the other qualities of CF, but I didn't know it was corrosive...interesting.

I like the strength of it because the Magnum instrument panel actually hangs on rubber mounts, away from the dash.  Most of the early magnums have instrument panels that a bent and look wavy because of the weight of the instruments and the force of the throttle and mixture pushing in and out.

Anyway, that was the idea behind using CF, but I'm tired of messing with it and would rather use a thick piece of aluminum.

Thanks for the info!

 

Ron

[RDavidson 183]

Well, we went back to cutting the carbon fiber with a laser.  It did a pretty good job.  I had to seal the edges with epoxy, light sanding and then a coat of matte finish lacquer.

the matte lacquer knocked the glossy look off , but it still has a 3D type look to it...hard to see in the pics because of the lights.

My poor man's glass panel is looking good!

I hope to have it installed in a day or two...can't wait!

 

See ya

Ron

[EDMO 1078]

I'm shocked that our "protective" government hasn't made airbags mandatory for planes!   Would an inflatable Kevlar IP work?

EDMO

[RobS 52]

That is certainly a very nice looking panel!

[EDMO 1078]

That is certainly a very nice looking panel!

Agree - and very innovative with the removable glass panels over the analog steam gauges - good thinking.

EDMO

Edited 7 Feb 2016 by EDMO

[RDavidson 183]

Thanks Rob!

Good eye Ed!  Yep kept the steam so I could teach my daughter to fly the right way.  She spends enough time with her face glued to a screen!

I like how it turned out, but truthfully I wish I would have just gone with the minimum stuff.  This took a lot of time, money and weight.  The kind of flying I want to do is not going to justify having any of it.  It is a great way to dump money into your plane that you will never get back!

It really was just an idea that I wanted to prove to myself, but I'm not going to beat my chest until I power everything up!  There is a possibility of complete disaster still looming!

This poor man's glass panel is about $3K- $5K less than the cheaper 2 screen setups and about the only thing I can't do is change radio frequencies or squawk codes on the iPads.  Visibility in sunlight will be another issue with the iPads, the aviation companies are way ahead in that area.

Here is a list of what all is integrated in the panel for those looking at doing the same kind of thing.

2 X iPad Air 2

GRT-4000 EIS

iLevil AW2

Navworx ADS-B 600 EXP (ADS-B in/out)

Sandia Transponder

Becker radio

Sigtronics intercom

Elevator trim

ELT

(I was worried about the iPads getting stolen from the plane, so I have a Kensington lock on each iPad and small cable that runs through the panel and connects to the frame of the plane...not thief proof but a small deterrent.)

 

It is ADS-B 2020 compliant

The iLevil integrates with the GRT 4000 to give engine information via wifi to the iPads, it also connects to the pitot static system to provide airspeed and altitude information.  The iLevil also provides pitch and roll info.

Like I said before, completely unnecessary for VFR flight, but I had fun learning about it all and I'm sure it will be great for cross country flying or distracting me enough for a spectacular crash! Ha!

 

Ron

 

[KFfan 151]

Not to detract from Ron's thread

When I went through ground school, there was a guy there who owns his own business. He was already getting air time. I encountered him about 9 months later, he still had not done his checkride, at a seminar sponsored by the FBO. I inquired about his progress. He was really ticked. His instructor had convinced him to switch from flying in a 152 to using a Diamond DA20. He was having great difficulty adjusting to the glass panel. I could go on and on but it all boils down to the possibility of information overload, to the detriment of the flight, and the pilot's ability to "understand" the panel. My take on glass panels.   Lou

[EDMO 1078]

Ron,  it looks great, but too complicated for me to make or use - I just worry about setting the altimeter to field altitude, and hope that the airspeed, tach and fuel levels aren't lying to me after the starter works!

EDMO