Borescope Rotax 582


37 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

Here is the inside of one of my engine cylinders, using a TV borescope: 130  hours since new, 42 with 100LL, the rest with Mogas. Comments??

Snap_005.jpg

Snap_009.jpg

Snap_018.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The cylinder walls should be smooth. Hard to tell if that's lead on the dome or carbon. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The walls look like they taper wider at the ports to keep the rings from catching (do they taper?) look in the middle pic at the cross hatching in the upper left. I'm rigging a small mirror to look laterally so I can see the upper cylinder walls more clearly. If the upper walls look like that dog's breakfast, its an automatic teardown, I think. The lower pic shows the stuff as mostly tan scales, which matches the plugs I pulled after all the 100LL. The plugs had 40 thou of hard tan crusties of lead.

Actually, not having the camera is much better!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

That middle pic looks like the cylinder walls are corroded or pitted??? Or is it just the pic? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I agree, that is at the bottom at the port level. The middle pic upper left shows the upper cyl wall area, which looks cross hatched, but I need better pics, will get them this week. I rigged a little mirror to get the camera to peek to the side.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Pull the exhaust manifold and take a peek.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If you pull the exhaust manifold, you will be able to see the cylinder walls real good.  Better than looking through the spark plug hole.  Here is an example.   Jim Chuk

Copy of newest Avids-scored piston and cylinder 014.jpg

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I agree with the above comments. It appears to have either corrosion or a lot of garbage on the lower end of the cylinder. I know that borescopes don't always show what is really there in pictures that well though. I would sure be looking at it through the exhaust as 1Avidflyer mentions. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I wonder what the crank and the inside of the case looks like?  Almost as if the engine was exposed to some corrosive fluid/atmosphere.  Complete disassembly?

Jackak

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

That middle pic looks like the cylinder walls are corroded or pitted??? Or is it just the pic? 

Corrosion or a reflection of the deposits on the top of the piston?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I'll bet most of what looks ugly on the cylinder walls is a reflection from the top of the piston.   No way it would be running if it was really scored up.  And yes, the ports taper in at the cylinder.  Jim Chuk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

 That looks like lead build up on top of the piston that is reflecting onto the cylinder walls. If it's running ok, put the plugs in it and run the engine on car gas only.  Check the condition after a couple of flights, the lead should be slowly going away. I just tore down my 582 to do a decarbon/inspection at 280 hrs. If your even curious, I'd recommend you do it.  It's easy to do once you make up your mind! It's fun too!  The main pain in the ass is putting in new c clips in the piston. When I do another decarbon, I won't take those out because it's not necessary.  Brycekat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

What brand 2 stoke oil are you using?

 

Are you running TCP additive to the 100LL to break down the lead particles and blow them out the exhaust. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

image.thumb.png.49ac27e3fb589914fbc4c497image.thumb.jpeg.8cf18d6be304b4c1abee072

 

Decalin or TCP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I'm planning on running 100ll all the time with one of these additives. There is ZERO non ethinol fuel available in SoCal unlessnits VP race fuel. I have to protect my Glass tanks from melting away, so motor gas with  ethinol isnt an option. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Sean I am going on 2000 gallons of pump gas with my 25 year old tanks. If you start running additives you have essentially became a chemist. 2-Strokes hate 100LL. You will be changing plugs every 10-15 hrs and there is documented issues with the lead sticking to critical parts in the rotating assembly. I've heard of people doing it but there's really no need. I attribute my tanks holding up to pre mixing my gas and never letting it sit more then 3 weeks without adding fresh gas. If you keep the fuel moving it seems to do okay. All the issues I've had with ethenal was in my lawn equipment and dirt bike after they sat for an extended period. Every time I deploy I drain my gas and put 2.5 gallons of Avgas in each wing and fly it around the patch. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

1/2 a cap full per 10 gallons. It makes the lead sludge softer and break up easier to be blown out the exhaust. 

 

Anybody care to donthe math on what ration 1/2oz is in 10 gallons?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

2560 : 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I have been told that Decalin or TCP changes the chemical composition of the lead at the time of combustion, and not knowing the particulars, I cant tell you what chemical that is.  I don't know about the 2-strokes, but in my Continental 75 it left a light gray / whitish coating inside the exhaust after using it a while.

EDMO

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

I agree with the above comments. It appears to have either corrosion or a lot of garbage on the lower end of the cylinder. I know that borescopes don't always show what is really there in pictures that well though. I would sure be looking at it through the exhaust as 1Avidflyer mentions. 

Looks like classic 100LL burn residue/lead on the piston top.  My next thought was this is reflected/mirrored off the cyl wall making it (the cyl wall) appear pitted.

Edited by allonsye

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

. Every time I deploy I drain my gas and put 2.5 gallons of Avgas in each wing and fly it around the patch. 

The Avgas/100LL as a preservative is a great idea. It lasts forever.   When I picked up #951 several years ago, it had been in storage for over 10-yrs and had  5 or 7 gal of 100LL sitting in the tanks.  I sumped them and burned in my BMW R1150GS.  Ran great. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

for the record, I burned 100LL for about 50 hours, and hi test car gas for the next 20. Lucas semi-synthetic for the oil the whole time. Starts and runs like a charm, lots of power.

I'll get some exhaust gaskets and peek inside asap.

Edited by nlappos
add updated borescope photos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Ok, went back in with a mirror on the camera, and got the story. The walls are mirror-like, so they reflected the lead deposits on the piston head. Also fairly wet with oil, so the lube works. The plugs are light brown, with minimal carbon. But the bad news, some piston scuffing can be seen. Comments?

5.jpg

4.jpg

3.jpg

2.jpg

1.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

I'd be pretty pissed if I had that kind of wear in less than 100 hours. I'm going to venture a guess that Lucas oil is subpar. I can see why 2 strokes have a bad name in aviation. 

I just pulled my 583 that was siezed after 20 hours on the hobbs. The previous owner went a little non standard with an Ellison throttle body carb and my guess is that he ran it lean in that time and blew it up. I just pulled jy motor yesterday to send it off to Rotax Rick for a 670 transformation. Your findings have made me curious and I'll run down to the Home Depot to see about buying that Ryobi scope.  I'll get some pics befor I send it off. I may even pull the cylinders today before I send it off.  What better way to learn than with an already messed up motor?

What brand scope is yours and what did it set you back. What scopes would you recommend?  Bang for the buck is my priority because ofhow little I'll use it. 

Edited by LORENZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Lorenz:

I bet that's cold seizing, and is my fault. The water temp was at 125 one takeoff, here in CT, and I couldn't get it any higher after 15 min at 3500 rpm (the most I could get with the brakes still holding me). And many circuits result in low temps during the glide, and even with a taxi back to take off again, the temp was seldom higher than 140.

My oil is Lucas Semi-synthetic, not cheap, and recommended by lots of forum folks. The real question, is this amount of scuffing an airworthiness problem? I attached a video that is better than the still pics showing a tour of the aft cylinder's walls.

 

The camera is a cheap Amazon one, 2 Megapixel, $25, with a few simple tools. It is 8.5mm, and with the little mirror it sees to the side very well. I taped the mirror on after pulling off its plastic collar which was so wide the assembly wouldn't fit in the spark plug hole. See the blue tape in the last pic. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016KUGVJC?keywords=borescope HD&qid=1455467033&ref_=sr_1_2&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011&rps=1&sr=8-2

Aft_Cylinder.avi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now