Yamaha RX1 Engines

562 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Ok.  Better tone.  That's good Greg.

But that whole analysis  (including chart) is something you derived on your own.  It is all put together by you!  

Sole source data and conclusions from someone who clearly has a prejudice in the matter....  troubling to me.

I have an engineering degree to Greg.  In this case I am far more comfortable relying on empirical data.

The empirical data is clear:  Approx 30 Skytrax conversions flying with a cbox (say 3000 hrs or so?) with one bearing failure.

Your conclusions would have some merit if you tested a C box to faulure and verified / modified them accordingly, but those estimates in your last post just plainly do not make sense.

 

Edited by Yamma-Fox

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Posted (edited)

PS:  I deleted the earlier post, as it did not go far enough in presenting hard-core engineering evidence, while at the same time going too far in the irritation direction.   

Atta boy! Keep the pertinent, detailed technical info coming, that's the key to educating us dummies on the benefits and accepting of any new product development. Just remember many here are jumping in early on the learning curve for the Yamaha conversion products and we probably need a lot of handholding to be brought up to speed because we don't spend our time on the rotor forums.

[edit] FWIW, I would add many old fart fixed wingers (including myself) don't Facebook either.

Edited by dholly
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Posted

I kept my mouth shut yesterday after reading the original post.  Made me think of a buddy of mine who owned the local Arctic cat shop.  When Skidoo came out with the single ply track he talked mad shit about it and how it would fly apart etc.  I got tired of listening to his rants and stopped hanging around the shop.  I told him I don't want to come in here and listen to a rant on what a pile of shit Skidoo and Polaris is, I want you to tell me why AC is better than the competitors.  Low and behold, the next year AC came out with the a single ply track and it was the best thing since sliced bread to him.  Years of him running his mouth about how bad the competition was instead of showcasing the product he sold led to the down fall of his business and loss of the dealership as NO ONE, even his very best of friends wanted to go into the shop and listen to him rant about the other guys, me included. 

My advise falls in along side most of the guys here.  Keep the technical data coming about your product, keep us updated on real world numbers not what you think works out on paper.  I deal with fixing engineering fuck ups on a daily basis and have to come up with real world solutions that work and result in a code compliant product.  I would love to see the same from you.  Testimonies from actual users of your engine redrive combo, real world numbers on flying hours with said combo.  I don't care one damn bit about paper numbers, they mean absolutely shit, the proof is in the pudding.

:BC:

 

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Posted

My E gear box is on it's 3rd owner, 6th engine, and 3700 hrs. Original bearings and 2nd donut. I replaced it just because it was convenient the last time my engine was rebuilt......just sayin....I know your data is for a Yamaha set up but overall I'm comfortable saying that the gearboxes themselves are pretty bullet proof.

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Posted (edited)

His (Greg Mills) data is concocted from picking and choosing numbers and estimates while sitting behind a computer.

He has never extensively ran a c box with a Yamaha.  Never put these paper estimates of his to a test.

The same is true for a line of sprag clutches he recently came out with.  He came up with TBO estimates with the same engineering slant (this time slanting towards his product) of thousands of hours TBO and a limetime guarantee from Mohawk Aero.

Real world testing on those sprag clutches showed: 2 tested and entirely destroyed within 2 hours each.  Copro's testimomy in the post above describes this.  Greg sent these clutches out (to people I know and talked with at the time) UNTESTED. The worst part of that sprag clutch debacle is that he didn't even notify other customers that the failures had occured.  I actually had to contact one of them (overseas customer), who planned to fly the clutch soon, and I advised him to stay on the ground because there were problems.

So what were dealing with in these engineering calculations is plain and simple:

 "Garbage in..... garbage out"

Like Akflyer says... proof is in the pudding (real world empirical test data).

Edited by MN Kitfox 2

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Posted (edited)

Remember here guys, I'm just a Yamaha enthusiast.

I have no alterior motives here.  I don't make money in this business.  I am just a guy that enjoys helping others who have an interest in Yamaha power options.

I have tried to support Greg and REALLY WISH that I could continue to do so, because the more good people who help develop Yamaha power in aircraft the better!

But he has forced my hand here, and I do not like it a bit.  You guys see what I normally post!  I am the positive easy going and supportive guy!

But when someone puts out bad, slanted, and fake news that doesn't help anyone.

When someone says their part will last thousands of hours, doesn't test it, and then doesn't warn others when a problem is found!!!  Then continues to pick on the other guys product that has been working virtually flawlessly..

Really?

Not cool... and not good for furthering Yamaha power.

Edited by MN Kitfox 2
I suck at spelling
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Posted

You folks are turning this into a yahoo forum :wacko:

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Posted

You folks are turning this into a yahoo forum :wacko:

I don't like it either.  Just trying to counter some bad info.  Somebody had to say something.

But I'll sign off on this one now.

I've said my piece.

 

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Posted

Greg, I talked to you on the phone one time and that was to try to get Jodys Skytrax adapter to work with your one way clutch and your clutch wouldnt work purely dimensionaly. I could of went online and posted to everywhere that looky here everyone his stuff doesnt work it was dimensional incorrect but i didnt just because i figured you werent familar with my adapter and you needed to work out the bugs. Now looking back on this situation thats exactly what you would have done. We never discussed all the things that you supposedly "taught" me. I shared with you my plans for the future (Apex gearbox) and some of my thoughts and you shared some of your insights. I kind of that at the time that we were sharing knowledge to collectively make this yamaha redrive thing better for everbody. Now that you have out right lied about multiple things on our correspondence among other things i will never talk with you on the phone or work with you to solve somones redrive problems. I am reluctant to do this because everone suffers but I can not allow you to slander my reputation and not for fear that i wont sell somthing to someone. I have met so many great people just making these little parts as a side hobby and there is no reason that someone should make up such things about me. You have allready started talking bad things on my new Apex gearbox and i havent even started the testing phase yet. I have high hopes for it but who knows testing could reveal all kinds of flaws and i could end up with a pile of scrap for the metal bin but one things for certain I wont be offering any for sale until i prove that they are a good alternatve. I am very interested in who had any failures of my adapters. To my knowledge there has been none with the exception of a oil weep on a few adapters and I am aware of one rotax c gearbox bearing failure (Steve Henry) that happened after 100 hours and it was not catostrphic he noticed excessive play in the clutch drum on preflight. We attributed this failure to the type of lubrication used and possible damage during a gear change out. He is now up to about 350 hours many of which flying at wot during competitions and 180 hp for take offs using nitrous. I am aware of his rubber rotax hardy disk coming apart but thats not to say one cant use the these ive used one my plane for over 200 hours now with no issues. Plus that is not a catostrophic failure either since the c box is design to eject the rubber pieces out the large holes in the side and continue to drive the 2 couplings by direct contact. I am not making any claims that this setup will go for thousands of hours because its an unkown  and I am unwilling to make up fake facts but at this time but it seems to be working pretty good so far. I would be happy to discuss any and all failures that you know here on this forum. We owe it to anybuilder considering one of our PSRU options. I however wont get in a debate with you on your skewed engineering data. I hardly have enough time as it and i dont want to use what little i have in negative arguments its not productive for anybody.

 

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Posted

Well said Teal. I have a jealous person in my line of work as well, he is my biggest advertizer:BC: 

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Posted

 I have been talking to Teal for the last few years about the Yamaha on my Tanarg. I now have the Yamaha RX one on my tanarg  and it is a game changer for me!  

 We have become friends during the course of this engine install and Teal has  bent over backwards to make sure everything is working right and anytime I have a question he’s there to help me out.   I have nothing but good to say about my buddy Teal and he has come through for me in every way during this process.  He is a man of good character and I’m glad to call him a friend.  These rx-1 engines are great on a trike!!  

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Posted

Thanks Greg.

I gotta give you credit for posting up and correcting errors in your earlier data.

And those estimates above at least do agree better with what we are seeing in the field, which makes them more credible.

:BC:

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Posted

The integrated purpose built Apex Gearbox is coming Along. I should be machine my first housing in about a month. 

gearbox4.jpg

Do you have a price point on the purpose built apex gear with built in adapter? How about a wiring solution? Looks like my motor sold so next week I will either pick up a rx1 or a apex, do you need a  guinea pig?

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Posted (edited)

Hey jared.  I know I talked to teal about this a week or so ago.

I think he was hoping to have it as a working prototype in 2018.  And I know he said that he will not send any out until it has undergone rigorous testing.

If you decide to go rx-1, teal said he had some adapters on the shelf, and there is a c box on ebay af that just popped up.

But maybe you already had the c box?

Edited by Yamma-Fox

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Posted

Already have the box. Need to take it off the motor. Hopefully going off island this coming Monday or tue.

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Posted

I know of a complete RX-1 set up for sale in Arizona

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Posted

I have found a few really nice running sleds for $2000

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Posted

First start up.  It fired right up.... after I opened the fuel valve.

20170706_215731.mp4

Did you make the airbox? Did you get a fwf weight? What thickness did you use one the engine mount? I am just getting started. Looks good.

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Posted (edited)

Copro's airbox (and most everything fwf) is fabricated by Steve Henry of Wild West Aircraft.  He sells the airbox and expansion tank for yamaha.  Also engine mount and headers specifically to fit highlander / superstol.

For me I used .75x.058 tube (some .049)for my mount (approx 16ft, no lengths greater that 2ft).  The side rails are 1.5"

As far as the airbox, I plan to try the Yam snowmo box.  If I have tuning trouble I'll scrap that plan and buy Steves.

Edited by Yamma-Fox

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Posted

Copro's airbox (and entire fwf) is Steve Henry's.

For me I used .75x.058 tube for my mount (approx 16ft, no lengths greater that 2ft).  The side rails are 1.5"

Copros  air box ? did Steve make that or is that a store? Looks nice and lite.

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Posted

Here is the solid works rendering of the completed integral APEX gearbox. I have to do a bunch of testing before I offer any for sale. I'm not taking any deposits until I prove it works well and get some flight testing in. I'm going to be doing initial testing without a clutch to see how it starts and stops. The initial ratio is 3.11:1. 

ISO 2.JPG

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Posted

Im sorry I didnt answer a previous question as far as price, I'm tring to keep this option the same or close to the same as the RX-1 adapter and gearbox price which is around $3000 depending on how much the C-gearbox costs. Here is a front view at the mounted angle to engine.

Front 2.JPG

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Posted

It’s beautiful. Good luck with the your testing Teal. 

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Posted

Awesome Teal! Very nice. Can't wait to hear about the flight testing. Please post pics once you get it installed.

Thanks!

Clark

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