No N numbers...No problem just don't fly from airports

[C5Engineer 1170]

Found an interesting ad on Barnstormers today. Not sure I would have posted all these details in my Ad along with pictures of the aircraft flying. No problem at all. No paperwork or ass pain involved in that process whatsoever. After having been thru the AW process on a plane that had previously flown and been registered..never ever ever again. I guess it's cool though as long as you don't fly out of an airport.

Straight from the Ad and no it's not an ultralight.

"Also, there are no N #'s with this aircraft. If you plan to fly out of airports you can easily get them, just need to have the DAR do an inspection."

 

Edited 18 May 2016 by C5Engineer

[Geoffrey Thorpe 31]

After having been thru the AW process on a plane that had previously flown and been registered..never ever ever again.

Would you mind writing up a rough outline of how you were able to accomplish this?

[Fly-n-Low 181]

I guess that is cool IF you can do that. I can't.

[azsportpilot 0]

"no N #'s with this aircraft. but If you plan to fly out of airports you can easily get them"

 

lol, easily? I doubt that

 

I was looking at a "Fat-UL" that did not make the deadline (Jan 2008) and after weeks of the seller insisting it could be registered, Tim Bogenhagen over at EAA got back to me with the procedures to attempt to do this (required all build logs & signatures from builder) it turned into a dead end

I'm not aware of anyone successfully registering and obtaining an airworthiness certificate for a "logless" Fat-UL after the grace period and deadline in Jan 08... possibly in the Exhibition category but E/AB seems doubtful & E-LSA is legally impossible is what I was told

(totally different story if it was ever registered in the past, still a hassle but possible)

Edited 18 May 2016 by azsportpilot

[C5Engineer 1170]

After having been thru the AW process on a plane that had previously flown and been registered..never ever ever again.

Would you mind writing up a rough outline of how you were able to accomplish this?

Mine was a unique case because it had an N Number and had been issued an E-AB Airworthiness Cert. In the early 90s it was common practice to issue one cert for Phase I and then in addition to a log book entry after the 40 hr fly off you had to apply for and receive the permanent AW cert. The cert mine had been issued had expired after 6 months. The original owner flew it that way unknowing it was illegal for a while and then sold the airplane. Fast forward 22 years and 3 or 4 owners and I had to pick up the paper trail. I essentially went thru the entire process as if I had just finished building. My big mistake was not making a new N number and making myself the builder which I easily could have done if I knew then what I know now. It took me a year and half just to get it registered in my name. From there I had to find an A&P to sign it off with a current conditional inspection and then I paid another $500 to a DAR to come out and give me my pink slip. And then I had to go thru Phase I all over again.

AZ sport pilot you are correct about the missed deadline fat ultralights. It's possible but only in the exhibition area and I heard that even requires that you know the loopholes and the right people to make it happen. I recently took the E-LSA repairmans course with Rainbow aviation and of the 20 person class 3 of them had paper weights and 2 of them had E-AB airplanes. None of them had any clue the difference between E-AB, E-LSA, and S-LSA. I'll admit it's confusing as hell but it's not that hard to contact the EAA and figure it out. Those guys blew the cost of the course fee and the cost of travel and lodging for the weekend.

[azsportpilot 0]

After having been thru the AW process on a plane that had previously flown and been registered..never ever ever again.

Would you mind writing up a rough outline of how you were able to accomplish this?

Mine was a unique case because it had an N Number and had been issued an E-AB Airworthiness Cert. In the early 90s it was common practice to issue one cert for Phase I and then in addition to a log book entry after the 40 hr fly off you had to apply for and receive the permanent AW cert. The cert mine had been issued had expired after 6 months. The original owner flew it that way unknowing it was illegal for a while and then sold the airplane. Fast forward 22 years and 3 or 4 owners and I had to pick up the paper trail. I essentially went thru the entire process as if I had just finished building. My big mistake was not making a new N number and making myself the builder which I easily could have done if I knew then what I know now. It took me a year and half just to get it registered in my name. From there I had to find an A&P to sign it off with a current conditional inspection and then I paid another $500 to a DAR to come out and give me my pink slip. And then I had to go thru Phase I all over again.

AZ sport pilot you are correct about the missed deadline fat ultralights. It's possible but only in the exhibition area and I heard that even requires that you know the loopholes and the right people to make it happen. I recently took the E-LSA repairmans course with Rainbow aviation and of the 20 person class 3 of them had paper weights and 2 of them had E-AB airplanes. None of them had any clue the difference between E-AB, E-LSA, and S-LSA. I'll admit it's confusing as hell but it's not that hard to contact the EAA and figure it out. Those guys blew the cost of the course fee and the cost of travel and lodging for the weekend.

great points, I can't tell you how many times I have seen a great deal on barnstormers, looked at the pics to see the N-number, type it into the FAA registry search.... only to find out its illegal, but in annual..... even the A&P's are not always catching this

at lease those can be renewed... usually

but no N-number?..... many of those sellers are not aware they are selling a "Paperweight" or "Lawn Decoration" as they are sometimes called... there are hundreds if not thousands of "Fat-UL's" out there that will never fly legally..... but hey, they were never legal to begin with, I guess it's OK if you are in a very rural area

I look at this the same way as no title on a car, could be a beautiful car but if you cant get a license plate what good is it, perhaps for parts?

so, if you have 2 identical Avid MK4 aircraft, same great panel, same location:

plane A was converted to E-LSA by the 08 deadline

plane B was not and is unregisterable

whats the price variance? 20%, 30%....50%?...... someone asked me that once, I told them my GUESS is whatever the parts are worth

 

 

 

Edited 18 May 2016 by azsportpilot