Motorcycle Education

[EDMO 1078]

This post is more for Lostman, but may have some interest.   Lostman hadn't heard of a Henderson Motorcycle - these were made in the early 1900s and had a 4 cylinder engine that some good folks removed and put into airplanes.   Indian also had a 4 cylinder motorcycle, and there is a guy from here that still rides one.  I thought my knowledge of motorcycles was fairly good, since I was almost a 1947 Indian Chief owner in the mid-1950s, and had a 1951 Harley Hand-Shaker before I got a driver's license or pilot license.   I remember the first time a guy put a Ford flathead V8 in a motorcycle, and then someone put a 265 and also a 283 Chevy V8 in one.   I think there was one built with TWO Chevy V8 engines in it.

Tonight, watching American Pickers, I got to see my first "Von Dutch"? custom cycle with a VW engine in it - supposedly, they bought it for $21K, but I really don't trust those reality shows enough to believe that.   Anyway, Kenneth, I just wanted you to know that now an "airplane engine" like yours was put in a motorcycle!   

P.S.  For the Rotax purists:  An "airplane engine" is any engine that is or was installed into an airplane!   "Continuing EDucation"  by EDMO

Edited 22 May 2016 by EDMO

[allonsye 85]

Wheels Through Time  Museum in Maggie Valley NC has Hendersons.  On one of my visits, Dale, the proprietor and chief restoration guru fired one up for me.  Virtually all the pieces on display are in running condition.

http://www.wheelsthroughtime.com/

 

[Av8r3400 1178]

  An "airplane engine" is any engine that is or was installed into an airplane! 

I will disagree with this statement.  An Aircraft Engine is one which is DESIGNED to be used in an aircraft.  Period.  Anything else is a conversion.  

Some conversions work very well.  Some don't.  Purist has nothing to do with it.

[EDMO 1078]

We can always disagree - I guess the Soob is really an aircraft engine converted to use in a car? 

and, the Lycoming, Continental, Franklin engines are conversions of the original Boxer car/tractor engine,  which was like the VW and Porsche and Subaru - Oh, and modified again as the Rotax 912?  I guess the only engine not modified from a late 1800s design is the turbine?   To me, an engine is an engine, and one that is successful in a flying plane is an aircraft engine... EDMO

Edited 28 May 2016 by EDMO

[Av8r3400 1178]

Rotax 912 was a clean sheet design for aircraft use.   Fact. 

Lyc, Conti, and Franklin were designed for aircraft and converted to automotive and many other uses.  Fact

Subaru was the exact opposite, designed for automotive (a liquid cooled copy of VW auto engine) and converted to aircraft use.  Fact. 

Dr. Ferdinand Porsche designed the volks wagon (people's car) in the 30's and the (Nazi) government seized it and Volkswagen was born.  Dr Porsche contued to refine the design after the war under his own name.  His engines were converted for use (unsuccessfully) in aircraft.

By your (flawed) logic, a Pratt & Whitney and Wright radials are tank engines used in airplanes.  Right?

 

Disagree with what you want but it doesn't change anything.  Now I'm done arguing this with you because it's like dueling with an unarmed man. 

[EDMO 1078]

Good thing the Boxer design was a successful engine - and not for airplanes - and everyone else, including Rotax used his design - bet if his patent was good today that Bombardier would be paying royalties!  And, I AM well armed - Got two of them, originals, but now antique, and not nearly as strong as they used to be!  Ha!  

I thought about going back to my schoolbooks and looking up the name of the guy who invented the Boxer engine, but who really cares now!     EDMO

Edited 28 May 2016 by EDMO

[dholly 718]

I thought about going back to my schoolbooks and looking up the name of the guy who invented the Boxer engine, but who really cares now!     EDMO

I do!

[marksires 484]

Per Wikipedia:

The concept was patented in 1896 by engineer Karl Benz, who called it the "contra engine."^[1][2]

[EDMO 1078]

Per Wikipedia:

The concept was patented in 1896 by engineer Karl Benz, who called it the "contra engine."^[1][2]

Yes - I knew it was something like Mercedes-Benz!   Wonder if he ever put it in an airplane, or motorcycle?    EDMO

Edited 28 May 2016 by EDMO

[lostman 198]

Larry and Ed, not sure why you two always have to argue. I will ad one point to your conversation. Fuji industries that built the first Subaru engines was an Aerospace company. They started ONLY building things for flight in 1917. Thus the Subaru engine was originally designed to fly! It wasn't until 1953 that they started putting them in cars. 

I for one like a good argument but this one has gone on far too long with both a lot of mud slinging and very few "facts" that can be backed up with any real data. If you have it, put it up. If you don't then shut up. 

My worthless two cents.

I have no quarrel with either 4 or 2 stroke engines. Each person likes what they like. I personally don't fly 2 strokes often, but mainly because I don't have the chance to and really don't have the knowledge to keep them as safe. On the other hand I am a trained mechanic and even though I've had several off field landings (as you all know) my ration of failures of 2 vs. 4 stroke engines in flight doesn't balance if you look at them on a per hour flown chart. Either way it doesn't matter. What does matter is that you understand and know how to keep up the type of engine you are flying behind (or in front of in some cases). As long as it's safe, one persons opinion about it doesn't make it more or less safe than the other.

[C5Engineer 1170]

 Great post!

[EDMO 1078]

Dang Larry - I think they just set some parts of the record straight - Heck, I might have to go to TKF to stir some shit with you!    Maybe we could meet at the Motorcycle Museum and look for a Mercedes-Benz Boxer engine Motorcycle, with an "airplane engine" conversion in it?   EDMO

Edited 29 May 2016 by EDMO

[Av8r3400 1178]

Ken, Please show me where the EA81 was designed for aircraft, and I will defer.  A predecessor seventeen generations, 50 years, earlier that had five prewar flying examples is worthless to the comparison. 

I guess who ever came up with the internal combustion engine to begin with made an aircraft engine because that's what we use now.  Apples and onions comparison.  

Fly what you want, I could care.  I won't fly behind a conversion. 

 

Bash away. I'm out. 

[EDMO 1078]

Ken, Please show me where the EA81 was designed for aircraft, and I will defer.  A predecessor seventeen generations, 50 years, earlier that had five prewar flying examples is worthless to the comparison. 

I guess who ever came up with the internal combustion engine to begin with made an aircraft engine because that's what we use now.  Apples and onions comparison.  

Fly what you want, I could care.  I won't fly behind a conversion. 

 

Bash away. I'm out. 

Larry,  Not bashing:   I believe the EA51 was the first, and not enough hp for the weight of the plane it was designed for - The EA71 followed, and then the EA81.   I don't know the year for each of them.    EDMO

Edited 29 May 2016 by EDMO